Climate Change thread

[Voice of reason]

14 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

That is a very good question, with no clear or simple answer either way.  From my western, green-leaning perspective then yes, ban products that are produced with excessive damage to the environment/climate.  From the perspective of a country like China, with a per capita GDP less than half ours (on a PPP basis - less than 1/4 on a nominal basis), it might look different.  The global perspective, in which might is right and China is a very big player in aggregate, could be different again.  The neoliberal ideology, which brooks no interference with the divine functioning of the Market (peace be upon it), provides yet another angle.

As the consumer (national consumer) we have the right to buy or allow the purchase of what wish. In my opinion if we restrict 'our' manufacturers, then those outside our jurisdiction should be able to sell only if they comply with our regulations. Not just of the end product, but of the process.

[Baron99]

See that Britain set a power record from 17 May to 31 May by not using any coal to generate electricity according to the National Grid Electricity Systems Operator (ESO).  Apparently ESO says this sort of thing will become the new norm.  Wonder how much other countries contributed to coal fired pollution over the past 2 weeks or are we just catching up with the 'greener' countries?  Wonder how much China, the US & India have chucked up into the atmosphere in the last fortnight? 

 

On a separate but related issue, I see that there is a threat to disrupt Heathrow Airport on June 18 with a further 10 days of disruption for up to 10 days in July by Extinction Rebellion, with the possibility of drones being used?   

 

It's a protest against a 3rd runway at Heathrow. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Baron99

[Voice of reason]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

See that Britain set a power record from 17 May to 31 May by not using any coal to generate electricity according to the National Grid Electricity Systems Operator (ESO).  Apparently ESO says this sort of thing will become the new norm.  Wonder how much other countries contributed to coal fired pollution over the past 2 weeks or are we just catching up with the 'greener' countries?  Wonder how much China, the US & India have chucked up into the atmosphere in the last fortnight? 

 

On a separate but related issue, I see that there is a threat to disrupt Heathrow Airport on June 18 with a further 10 days of disruption for up to 10 days in July by Extinction Rebellion, with the possibility of drones being used?   

 

It's a protest against a 3rd runway at Heathrow. 

Great news on the uk power generation methods.

Sadly we know what the others will have been doing.

 

The extinction rebellion  tactics are going to alienate people against the cause. Very bad idea imo.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Voice of reason

[staninoodle]

8 hours ago, Baron99 said:

See that Britain set a power record from 17 May to 31 May by not using any coal to generate electricity according to the National Grid Electricity Systems Operator (ESO).  Apparently ESO says this sort of thing will become the new norm.  Wonder how much other countries contributed to coal fired pollution over the past 2 weeks or are we just catching up with the 'greener' countries?  Wonder how much China, the US & India have chucked up into the atmosphere in the last fortnight? 

 

On a separate but related issue, I see that there is a threat to disrupt Heathrow Airport on June 18 with a further 10 days of disruption for up to 10 days in July by Extinction Rebellion, with the possibility of drones being used?   

 

It's a protest against a 3rd runway at Heathrow. 

If we covered the Sahara with solar panels,we could provide enough clean energy to power the entire planet,every single day.......makes you wonder whats holding the decision makers back,profits possibly and whose gonna get them....

[Cyclone]

On 31/05/2019 at 19:23, CaptainSwing said:

As I read it, Cyclone's proposal would be to ban imports of Shanghai Bike Co. products altogether under those circumstances, not just place a tariff on them.

Exactly what I meant.  Although blaming a company for the source of it's electricity would probably be going too far, it's not like they can get electricity from somewhere else, so it's outside their control.

Sweatshop labour conditions, generally environmentally harmful behaviour, these things can be controlled.  We already see it a bit, apple products are built in China and the news occasionally covers a story about the conditions of the workers and apple promises to "do better".  If the imports were banned it would "do better" a whole lot quicker I expect.

On 31/05/2019 at 23:17, Voice of reason said:

As the consumer (national consumer) we have the right to buy or allow the purchase of what wish. In my opinion if we restrict 'our' manufacturers, then those outside our jurisdiction should be able to sell only if they comply with our regulations. Not just of the end product, but of the process.

That's only possible to some level though.  We can't for example force foreign companies to pay a UK minimum wage, nor would it necessarily even make sense, with the cost of living being very different depending on where you are.

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Exactly what I meant.  Although blaming a company for the source of it's electricity would probably be going too far, it's not like they can get electricity from somewhere else, so it's outside their control.

Sweatshop labour conditions, generally environmentally harmful behaviour, these things can be controlled.  We already see it a bit, apple products are built in China and the news occasionally covers a story about the conditions of the workers and apple promises to "do better".  If the imports were banned it would "do better" a whole lot quicker I expect.

That's only possible to some level though.  We can't for example force foreign companies to pay a UK minimum wage, nor would it necessarily even make sense, with the cost of living being very different depending on where you are.

Part of the issue is that the Chinese have sat there watching the west do what they want in pursuit of wealth for centuries paying little or no heed to people or the environment.

 

now after the west has broken it were asking the Chinese to help fix it at their cost.

 

difficult discussion I suppose.

[Cyclone]

Not really, two wrongs don't make a right and the single largest country in the world by a large way (by population) continues to break the environment then the human race will end up extinct.  It doesn't seem like a hard decision when it's a case of making money now but billions of people dying for it...

[Voice of reason]

1 hour ago, makapaka said:

Part of the issue is that the Chinese have sat there watching the west do what they want in pursuit of wealth for centuries paying little or no heed to people or the environment.

 

now after the west has broken it were asking the Chinese to help fix it at their cost.

 

difficult discussion I suppose.

The issue has come to head long after China was industrialised.

[Mikes10]

BBC Radio 4, Prof Alice Roberts examines how we have tried and failed to save the planet:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0005mpm

 

 

[Guest makapaka]

9 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Not really, two wrongs don't make a right and the single largest country in the world by a large way (by population) continues to break the environment then the human race will end up extinct.  It doesn't seem like a hard decision when it's a case of making money now but billions of people dying for it...

I’m not saying I agree with that standpoint but I can see why it creates an issue.