Climate Change thread

[Magilla]

41 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Feel free to comment!

Your graphs appear to show that the ice is thinner, and more susceptible to early break up... which in turn will lead to sea level rise:

 

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/data/terminology.html

"Anomalies have positive values where there is more ice than average and negative values where there is less ice than average."

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Magilla

[Anna B]

22 hours ago, trastrick said:

You can blame "Big Oil", but where would you be without it? Do you ever drive? Cook with gas? Take a bus?

 

It's the "Paris Accord" Europeans that cannot give up their addiction to Russian Fossil Fuel Oil and Gas.

 

Since the Ukraine War started they have paid Putin some $31 billion at inflated prices, and it continues.

 

In 2021 alone they paid Putin $101 billion.

 

And every penny helps finance Putin's war on the hapless Ukrainians.

 

Not to mention what it is doing to my planet! 

 

I'm outraged too, but not necessarily against "Big Oil".

Climate change was a well known phenomenon back in the 80's. What's happening now was predicted back then.

 

Alternatives to oil were being developed  but were shut down by the oil companies, with vested interests in keeping oil consumption and profits high.

 

There are alternatives to oil. We can reduce consumption if not eliminate it. But we are being prevented by the mega rich, mega powerful Oil companies.

 

 

[Annie Bynnol]

18 minutes ago, trastrick said:

As a change from the whining, griping and sniping, blaming, and demands for ever more spending and tranfers of wealth from the developed world to the undeveloped world, it's time for some science here.

Which is sorely missing from these threads.

 

U.N. 

Press Release

 

"Climate Change ‘Biggest Threat Modern Humans Have Ever Faced’, World-Renowned Naturalist Tells Security Council, Calls for Greater Global Cooperation"

 

With similar rhetoric echoed by Western World Leaders, and the World Health Organization.

 

And with only a few years left to avoid "catastrophe" they say, it deserves a more serious discussion.

 

"Scientists say" is a frequently used intro to the perils of Global Warming, aka Climate Change aka Extreme weather events, by politicians, MSM, and the climate pontificates.

 

But what exactly are scientists saying?

 

Since 1979 the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has been monitoring the Earth's temperature by satellite.

 

Likewise the National Snow and Ice Data Center has been monotoring the polar ice (at both Poles)

 

So we have a 43 year old record of satellite observations, that do not rely on ground stations, sea buoys, weather balloons, ice core samples or tree ring analysis.

 

Here's their latest published data.

 

Earth's Temperature

 

 

Polar Ice Cover

 

North Pole

 

 

South Pole

 

So how catastrophic is it? How imminent?

 

Feel free to comment!

 

That you are no climatologist.

That you have been selective in the dates you use- June dates do not reflect maxima/minima and non-reveal thickness of ice or sea temperatures. Use September and February in the Arctic.  Why June in the Antarctic?

Climate is a mathematically chaotic system.

Therefore single dataset in two region of the world cannot mathematically establish anything and could not possibly be an indicator of the ongoing  global  changes. 

 

Very, very simplistically North Pole sea ice is varies dramatically(Amundsen did the NW passage in 1903 encountering very little sea ice, there was a Bishop for Greenland in 1152) because of  wind direction, currents, air temperature, amount and temperature of freshwater entering the Arctic basin. Some of the very best observational data comes from the belligerent naval and actual submarine data since 1950's.

Arctic ice extent is like a vernier device as it handily exaggerates the combined effects of the ice causing factor-some of which are limited to the Arctic.

In other area of the world there are equally exaggerated responses to climate change.

 

Many times more important is the:

1 state of continental ice of Antarctica.

2 salinity, currents and sea temperatures of Antarctic Ocean (including calving of the  ice shelves over the ocean.

3 wind strength and direction over the continent an ocean(If you wanted to make you make your point better you should have chosen only your Antarctica observations over which their is some debate).

The Antarctica ice cap is why the Earth is still described as being within an Ice Age. It is the circumpolar current that controls all the climates of the southern hemisphere and any changes to that would be extremely serious.

 

What we are seeing now is an acceleration of the progress of minor climate change caused by human factors feeding into the chaos that is climate. 

Over time we  adapt to anything but having as much time as possible is a good idea.

 

 

 

Your archaic list of observation types predates even my university textbooks on climatology

 

 

[El Cid]

10 hours ago, trastrick said:

 

My own observation is that life has survived some 3.7 billion years on Earth.

 

Are we really to believe that the planet will die in  catastrophe in the mere lifetime of a global warmer?

The planet will still be here when the human population is much reduced. We are like a plague, using the earth's resources.

Flying insects are much reduced, no longer is your car windscreen covered in dead minibeasts after a long journey.

Birds populations are way down, you can no longer throw out bread and it be consumed in minutes.

The fish in our oceans are caught by the tonne, with some areas baron of fish.

The UK is now home to parrots and bee eating birds.

The earth is going through a massive change, at the very least, we should be concerned.

[Padders]

My washing machine has packed up, due to the high cost of living I can't afford to replace it...

I'm now doing my washing in a stream in Woolley Woods..

If we don't get more rain I'm going to be flummoxed.

So yes, climate change affects everyone.

[hackey lad]

2 minutes ago, Padders said:

My washing machine has packed up, due to the high cost of living I can't afford to replace it...

I'm now doing my washing in a stream in Woolley Woods..

If we don't get more rain I'm going to be flummoxed.

So yes, climate change affects everyone.

You will have to put the price of drinks and donuts up in Paddy’s Bar . Or get Eileen to wash your skidders 

Edited July 23, 2022 by hackey lad

[Mr Bloke]

11 minutes ago, Padders said:

My washing machine has packed up, due to the high cost of living I can't afford to replace it...

I'm now doing my washing in a stream in Woolley Woods..

If we don't get more rain I'm going to be flummoxed.

So yes, climate change affects everyone.

Hmmm...

That's sheer luxury, Mr Padders!

Some or us can only dream a doing our weshing in a stream.

I av to nip o'er next do'ers fence, int middle at neet, when they're all tucked up reight snug in bed, an wesh me undies int neighbours bird bath...

[Anna B]

6 minutes ago, El Cid said:

The planet will still be here when the human population is much reduced. We are like a plague, using the earth's resources.

Flying insects are much reduced, no longer is your car windscreen covered in dead minibeasts after a long journey.

Birds populations are way down, you can no longer throw out bread and it be consumed in minutes.

The fish in our oceans are caught by the tonne, with some areas baron of fish.

The UK is now home to parrots and bee eating birds.

The earth is going through a massive change, at the very least, we should be concerned.

The Earth is always going through change, ever since the beginning of time.

It's a living, breathing organism that changes and provides a habitat for a vast array of life which also adapts, changes, comes and goes. Humans have only been part of this ecosystem  for a relatively short time, to be able to witness these changes, and the only species to exploit nature to such devastating effect and try to control it.

 

But one way or another, Nature will win every time, and have no compunction wiping mankind out, if its very existance is threatened.  The planet will still be here when we are long gone and have been replaced by something else. It's in our own interest to work with nature, not against it. 

  

[hackey lad]

39 minutes ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

That's sheer luxury, Mr Padders!

Some or us can only dream a doing our weshing in a stream.

I av to nip o'er next do'ers fence, int middle at neet, when they're all tucked up reight snug in bed, an wesh me undies int neighbours bird bath...

Bird bath ?  Luxury 

[Padders]

My next door neighbour has 8 solar panels on his roof.

This generates more electric than he needs, so he sells it back into the national grid.

He sits in his house with the Air Conditioning on, all for free.

I'm sat in my house in a string vest trying to keep cool...

He's got money, I've got now't.

Not right is it.