Climate Change thread

[hackey lad]

33 minutes ago, Padders said:

My next door neighbour has 8 solar panels on his roof.

This generates more electric than he needs, so he sells it back into the national grid.

He sits in his house with the Air Conditioning on, all for free.

I'm sat in my house in a string vest trying to keep cool...

He's got money, I've got now't.

Not right is it.

A string vest is certainly not right 

[El Cid]

9 hours ago, Padders said:

 

He's got money, I've got now't.

Not right is it.

Free solar panels were available to many on a low income.

A friend of mine had some fitted this month. People cannot complain if those chose to do nothing.

[trastrick]

20 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

That you are no climatologist.

That you have been selective in the dates you use- June dates do not reflect maxima/minima and non-reveal thickness of ice or sea temperatures. Use September and February in the Arctic.  Why June in the Antarctic?

Climate is a mathematically chaotic system.

Therefore single dataset in two region of the world cannot mathematically establish anything and could not possibly be an indicator of the ongoing  global  changes. 

 

Very, very simplistically North Pole sea ice is varies dramatically(Amundsen did the NW passage in 1903 encountering very little sea ice, there was a Bishop for Greenland in 1152) because of  wind direction, currents, air temperature, amount and temperature of freshwater entering the Arctic basin. Some of the very best observational data comes from the belligerent naval and actual submarine data since 1950's.

Arctic ice extent is like a vernier device as it handily exaggerates the combined effects of the ice causing factor-some of which are limited to the Arctic.

In other area of the world there are equally exaggerated responses to climate change.

 

Many times more important is the:

1 state of continental ice of Antarctica.

2 salinity, currents and sea temperatures of Antarctic Ocean (including calving of the  ice shelves over the ocean.

3 wind strength and direction over the continent an ocean(If you wanted to make you make your point better you should have chosen only your Antarctica observations over which their is some debate).

The Antarctica ice cap is why the Earth is still described as being within an Ice Age. It is the circumpolar current that controls all the climates of the southern hemisphere and any changes to that would be extremely serious.

 

What we are seeing now is an acceleration of the progress of minor climate change caused by human factors feeding into the chaos that is climate. 

Over time we  adapt to anything but having as much time as possible is a good idea.

 

 

 

Your archaic list of observation types predates even my university textbooks on climatology

 

 

I posted the entire satelllite record, from 1979 to the very latest today!

 

From the scientific experts at the 

 

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the 

 

National Snow and Ice Data Center

 

They are the climatologists not me 

 

And I've no reason to doubt them.

 

Feel free to  come to your own conclusions.

[trastrick]

20 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

 

Your archaic list of observation types predates even my university textbooks on climatology

 

 

Your text books should show that there are 2 records of the Earth's average temperature.

 

One, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's 43 year satellite observations.

 

Two, National Aeronautics and Space Administration's  terrestrial record of the collected data from various proxy sources, going back to 1880 (long before they had even explored large swaths of the Earth, including both Poles. For the pre-satellite era, they must rely on "the best available data", which includes the aforementioned proxies.

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

 

As technology progresses, and the satellite record becomes more extensive, (now 43 years) the satellite observations  become more reliable than the proxies or the algorithms used to "fill in" missing data from 1880 to 1979. a 100 year "best available evidence" record.

 

 

 

 

On 23/07/2022 at 05:39, Magilla said:

...but being lampooned for getting basic facts wrong or failing to understand your own links... you're all in!

What "basic facts" are you talking about?

 

Feel free to post actual the comment that "offends" you.

 

In it's entirety! 

 

 

 

[trastrick]

21 hours ago, Anna B said:

Climate change was a well known phenomenon back in the 80's. What's happening now was predicted back then.

 

Alternatives to oil were being developed  but were shut down by the oil companies, with vested interests in keeping oil consumption and profits high.

 

There are alternatives to oil. We can reduce consumption if not eliminate it. But we are being prevented by the mega rich, mega powerful Oil companies.

 

 

You should complain to the Europeans.

 

It is they who will not "reduce consumption if not eliminate it." (their Russian Fossill Fuel Oil and Gas addiction)

 

They are pleading to keep the Big Oil and Gas flowing, from Russia, Saudis and anywhere else they can get it, lest they freeze in the dark, come next winter! 

[trastrick]

12 hours ago, El Cid said:

The planet will still be here when the human population is much reduced. We are like a plague, using the earth's resources.

Flying insects are much reduced, no longer is your car windscreen covered in dead minibeasts after a long journey.

Birds populations are way down, you can no longer throw out bread and it be consumed in minutes.

The fish in our oceans are caught by the tonne, with some areas baron of fish.

The UK is now home to parrots and bee eating birds.

The earth is going through a massive change, at the very least, we should be concerned.

Who's "we", paleface? 

 

My carbon footprint I would wager is lower than anybody here. No transportation, walk to everything, eat only local produced, home cooked food, shower in unheated water.

 

I don't have the self loathing to describe my life on Earth as a "plague".

 

Neither do I want such stuff to be taught to my children!

 

I'm waiting with baited breath, for the European Colonialist pearl clutching lecturers, to walk the actual talk.

 

And tell Putin, and Big Oil where to shove their Fossil Fuel Oil and Gas.

 

After you, Alphonse! 

Edited July 24, 2022 by trastrick

[Magilla]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

I posted the entire satelllite record, from 1979 to the very latest today!

 

From the scientific experts at the 

 

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the 

 

National Snow and Ice Data Center

 

The data isn't at issue, your complete failure to understand or interpret it is.

 

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

They are the climatologists not me 

Which is why they don't appear to agree with your assessment!

 

The NOAA's Climate page:

https://www.climate.gov/

 

 

 

 

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Who's "we", paleface? 

 

My carbon footprint I would wager is lower than anybody here. No transportation, walk to everything, eat only local produced, home cooked food, shower in unheated water.

That is a good lifestyle. Many households have two/three cars.

Population increase is a major factor, you would massively increase your carbon footprint if you have three/four children.

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

I posted the entire satelllite record, from 1979 to the very latest today!

 

From the scientific experts at the 

 

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the 

 

National Snow and Ice Data Center

 

They are the climatologists not me 

 

And I've no reason to doubt them.

 

Feel free to  come to your own conclusions.

When you say that you have posted "...the entire satelllite record, from 1979..." from NOAA,  and added random polar maps and graphical interpretations data it gives the impression that you are not familiar with the subject.

 

NOAA currently operate nearly 20 satellites, they have previously operated at least 30 (known) satellites since 1970.

They also belong to international data sharing systems enabling 24 hour cover and different types of sensors and penetrating observation methods. Since the Arctic Ocean would have been the seen main attacks from the Soviet Union,  Arctic ice has been the focus of continuous $billion research budgets, covertly by US Navy and more openly by NOAA. The reasons these budget spends are never ending is that Artic ice changes are never ending and unpredictable.

Only a tiny fraction of satellite time would be allocated to measuring the extent of the sea ice in the Arctic as there are far more important observations to make.

 

To help you prove your point, focus on continental Antarctica as that is where the 'Climate Change' activists claims are weakest. The Arctic data is too easily manipulated and emotive(Polar Bears are better adapted to live and hunt on land than on sea ice-the issue is more to do with human encroachment). Continental Antarctica has by a factor of 100 more effect on sea level rise.

Another factor ignored by the activists is: A major limiting factor that controls plant growth is the low level of  CO2 in the atmosphere. 

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Who's "we", paleface? 

 

My carbon footprint I would wager is lower than anybody here. No transportation, walk to everything, eat only local produced, home cooked food, shower in unheated water.

 

I don't have the self loathing to describe my life on Earth as a "plague".

 

Neither do I want such stuff to be taught to my children!

 

I'm waiting with baited breath, for the European Colonialist pearl clutching lecturers, to walk the actual talk.

 

And tell Putin, and Big Oil where to shove their Fossil Fuel Oil and Gas.

 

After you, Alphonse! 

Your flights?