Climate Change thread

[Annie Bynnol]

6 minutes ago, trastrick said:

When you can come up with better technology than satellites, let me know.

 

Politicians? farmers? fishermen? and their tall tales? 

 

 

 

The next family of satellites will always be better than the current one and are a fabulous tool but they still cannot 'see' air pressure, ocean currents or temperatures at depth etc. They are not very good at measuring microclimates. To this end aircraft, buoys, balloons, weather stations, ships etc are used to collect data which satellites can't see, or more accurately than satellites.

The trick is to gather, collate, weigh, analyse, model etc., all the data streams.

 

To claim that weather data and therefore climate data is  converted into a hoax just establishes your lack of understanding of how the data is collected, shared* and analysed and unless they are all involved in one of your Conspiracy Theories. Why would all the weather agencies and all the amateur hobbyists gather together to create another one of your 'hoaxes'? 

 

*A huge amount of raw data can be picked up from satellites and collected by anybody with the right equipment. 

[trastrick]

1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The trick is to gather, collate, weigh, analyse, model etc., all the data streams.

Aye, and there's the rub!

 

"the trick" 

 

Imagine if we REALLY had only 7, 9 10 years to save the planet from "catastrophe".

 

It would make a great movie, like the one they had running in D.C. until they all went home for the summer!

 

Lol 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by trastrick

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Aye, and there's the rub!

 

"the trick" 

 

Imagine if we REALLY had only 7, 9 10 years to save the planet from "catastrophe".

 

It would make a great movie, like the one they had running in D.C. until they all went home for the summer!

 

Lol 

 

There are people like who think it is a "hoax".

There are some people who think we are on the brink of a ""catastrophe"".

 

What they have in common is their selective and often deliberate misinterpretation of data in order to establish a political view. The 'noise' they create drowns out any normal conversation. They prefer a polarized and a divided population rather than one where opinion is based on learning and understanding.

 

 

[El Cid]

4 hours ago, trastrick said:

 

Imagine if we REALLY had only 7, 9 10 years to save the planet from "catastrophe".

 

I don't believe the science can be that accurate.

Watching TV tonight about making steel without using coal. A massive step forward, but it would take decades to do the same worldwide.

I don't believe we can stop climate change, we cannot even stop wars, which kill people today. So there is no way we can prevent future deaths.

But that does not mean we should stop trying, because things are uncertain and generating your own electric is cheaper.

[Anna B]

Isn't another ice-age supposed to be imminent? 

[Dromedary]

7 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

....

*A huge amount of raw data can be picked up from satellites and collected by anybody with the right equipment. 

It can but that data collected can only go back as far as the first satellite that was designed and launched to collect that data in the first place. For instance we don't actually know if the ozone hole that keeps changing in size that was first detected by satellites launched since 1978 should be there or not. As we don't have data before that period to compare with we just make assumptions as to why it's there. It may be that the changing size may have some regulatory effect on the atmosphere and it may have always been there for a reason.

[Annie Bynnol]

6 hours ago, Dromedary said:

It can but that data collected can only go back as far as the first satellite that was designed and launched to collect that data in the first place. For instance we don't actually know if the ozone hole that keeps changing in size that was first detected by satellites launched since 1978 should be there or not. As we don't have data before that period to compare with we just make assumptions as to why it's there. It may be that the changing size may have some regulatory effect on the atmosphere and it may have always been there for a reason.

I think you have misunderstood my post.

The snippet you quote refers to the ability of anybody with the right  equipment to receive the data stream/packages and the right software to interrogate the raw data can access many of these weather satellites.  This makes it impossible for the "hoax" supporters to claim a conspiracy. In the 1972 our physics teacher was able to obtain raw positional data from the Moon orbiter and lander of Apollo17( the signal interruptions were at the correct UK times- not Hollywood!).

 

Long before satellites detected the extent, seasonal fluctuation and degradation of the ozone layer over Antarctica, the ground British Antarctic Survey were measuring the seasonal and longer term cycles changes in the ozone layer.  By 1985 this seasonal cycle was being interrupted as predicted by the rapid increase in CFC's.  The data was backed up by several other sources and were available to professionals and amateurs all over the world. Perhaps the satellite imagery was visually more convincing but it was qualitatively less accurate.

 

Climate data is affected by several independent variables, sometimes short, sometimes long. Like the tides they sometimes magnify and sometimes cancel each other out. The number of different ways of measuring these variables, the improvement in accuracy and dependability of measuring these variables, and the the increasing accuracy of climate models means that better predictions can be made. The "activists" and the "hoaxers" will select the interpretation that best suits their beliefs.

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

Isn't another ice-age supposed to be imminent? 

We are in an Ice Age- defined as an ice cap on one or both poles. 

Within this Ice Age it has got warmer and cooler dozens of times. In finding out why, climatologists and astronomers have found at least 12 significant cycles in the orbit of the Earth, the wobbly Earth, the tilting of the Earth, Solar power changes etc.  Volcanic ash and smoke from forest fires are unpredictable- as are humans. The presence of a island land mass to hold ice kilometres deep surrounded by is a huge current of very cold water has a massive influence. The present Ice Age will not go away until the continental land mass drifts away.

In the 1970's accurate satellite imagery enable us to see the expansion of Arctic glaciers and expanding sea ice leading some to predict a new 'Ice Age'. Vastly more important was the impact on submarine movements.

 

The next big ice advance based on the coinciding of the major cooling variables- 1500 to 100 000 but most predictions are     50 000+ years.

 

The dinosaurs thrived for 300 million years on a far warmer planet- can we?

[Magilla]

7 hours ago, Dromedary said:

It can but that data collected can only go back as far as the first satellite that was designed and launched to collect that data in the first place.

Ozone levels in the atmosphere have been recorded for nearly a 100 years... using Dobson spectrophotometers. The British Antarctic Survey was taking measurements in the 50's.

 

Drops in Ozone levels were recorded long before 1978, satellite monitoring confirmed what was already known.

 

[trastrick]

11 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

There are people like who think it is a "hoax".

There are some people who think we are on the brink of a ""catastrophe"".

 

What they have in common is their selective and often deliberate misinterpretation of data in order to establish a political view. The 'noise' they create drowns out any normal conversation. They prefer a polarized and a divided population rather than one where opinion is based on learning and understanding.

 

 

100% accurate, Annie!

[Magilla]

26 minutes ago, trastrick said:

100% accurate, Annie!

Said without a hint of understanding that in this case "their selective and often deliberate misinterpretation of data in order to establish a political view."...

 

...could well be a reference to your posts!

Edited July 28, 2022 by Magilla