Cyclone Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Well I agree they should be able to refuse service. I don’t agree that this refusal should be through prejudice. It seems to me that this thread has just been hijacked to try and point score by you and snaily boy. No ones actually said people should be allowed to discriminate through prejudice but you’re arguing like the have. I imagine you don’t like the idea of acknowledging that those opposing the gay men that wasted this money by bringing unnecessary action are right as verified by the Supreme Court - so instead are just assuming prejudice for someone’s comments in regard to their preference to choose who they do/don’t work for - something which many businesses actually aspire to in fact. You’re now going on about white Hetero privilege - which has even less to do with this subject and is also wrong anyway. White hetero males never experiencing refused service - that’s not supported by fact either is it. It looked very much like they did say that. What with them saying they shouldn't have to say why they were refusing service and then saying that if they had to they could always like. Why did you imagine they were saying that, if not to hide discrimination? ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:50 ---------- As far as I'm concerned, a business owner has the right to serve whom they wish to. If I was refused service somewhere for some reason, I'd just simply leave them to it and shop elsewhere. I don't know if it's still the case, but Thornton's would allow messages in foreign languages to be written on their products. I didn't kick up a fuss about it - I just didn't buy that specific thing from them. If I went to a Christian baker and asked them for a cake depicting Jesus on a cross... would I really expect them to create that for me? Or a Jewish baker being asked to create something for a neo-Nazi group? If a business refuses service on the basis of colour/sex/religion etc. then that's up to them See Maka. People in this very thread are arguing that businesses should be allowed to discriminate and refuse service. Again, they make that argument from the secure position of being in a group that will never suffer discrimination in any meaningful way. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:51 ---------- I want to live in a society where people have a choice to do something, act in a certain way, and then live by the consequences instead of some authoritarian organization telling me what I can and can't think and telling me what is right or wrong. Part of being human is working that out for myself. I despise religion - yet, I support the Christian bakery in this instance. So it should be legal to murder people, but you'd have to suffer the consequences of that? Look at this way, you can already do what you want, and the consequences you suffer are imposed by the state, on behalf of the people, by means of the law. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- But telling everyone they must believe the same as everyone else and we have to include everyone in everything is a bit... fascist, really. So what if a bakery refused service to someone due to their religious belief and the customer's sexuality? He knows not to shop there in future and everyone knows their politics now. If we start pushing things underground and suppressing thoughts and opinions, that's where extremism begins. You've confused it being illegal to discriminate with it being illegal to be a douche. The first is illegal, the second is not. You can THINK what you like. You can be friends with whoever you like. But you can't run a business and discriminate against people. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- I believe anyone should have the right to refuse to do something they feel uncomfortable doing. What about they rights of these people ? Or do you only believe rights apply to the people refused service ? Like providing a service to black people, Irish or women for example... ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:55 ---------- Not if he doesn't demonstrate that as the reason And so we're back to people lying in order to hide their discrimination. Something Maka didn't recognise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 It looked very much like they did say that. What with them saying they shouldn't have to say why they were refusing service and then saying that if they had to they could always like. Why did you imagine they were saying that, if not to hide discrimination? ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:50 ---------- See Maka. People in this very thread are arguing that businesses should be allowed to discriminate and refuse service. Again, they make that argument from the secure position of being in a group that will never suffer discrimination in any meaningful way. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:51 ---------- So it should be legal to murder people, but you'd have to suffer the consequences of that? Look at this way, you can already do what you want, and the consequences you suffer are imposed by the state, on behalf of the people, by means of the law. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- You've confused it being illegal to discriminate with it being illegal to be a douche. The first is illegal, the second is not. You can THINK what you like. You can be friends with whoever you like. But you can't run a business and discriminate against people. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- Like providing a service to black people, Irish or women for example... ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:55 ---------- And so we're back to people lying in order to hide their discrimination. Something Maka didn't recognise. I don't agree with the post you have highlighted by Leviathan - which was made after my post. No one had made that statement when I posted. I don't understand yours and Snaily Boy's desire to fish that out over the course of this thread mind - as the fact that some people hold that view has nothing to do with the topic. Anyway - that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choogling Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 i think the mods should shut this down its getting way off topic and some of the comments are getting to be stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosser Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 i think the mods should shut this down its getting way off topic and some of the comments are getting to be stupid. No! Dave Gorman might find it and make a "found poem" from it. Example here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 As far as I know a publican can refuse to serve you even if it's only because he doesn't like the colour of your tie... Same at nightclubs. I'm sure we've all experienced or seen someone turned away for the flimsiest of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan13 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 It looked very much like they did say that. What with them saying they shouldn't have to say why they were refusing service and then saying that if they had to they could always like. Why did you imagine they were saying that, if not to hide discrimination? ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:50 ---------- See Maka. People in this very thread are arguing that businesses should be allowed to discriminate and refuse service. Again, they make that argument from the secure position of being in a group that will never suffer discrimination in any meaningful way. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:51 ---------- So it should be legal to murder people, but you'd have to suffer the consequences of that? Look at this way, you can already do what you want, and the consequences you suffer are imposed by the state, on behalf of the people, by means of the law. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- You've confused it being illegal to discriminate with it being illegal to be a douche. The first is illegal, the second is not. You can THINK what you like. You can be friends with whoever you like. But you can't run a business and discriminate against people. ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:53 ---------- Like providing a service to black people, Irish or women for example... ---------- Post added 16-10-2018 at 16:55 ---------- And so we're back to people lying in order to hide their discrimination. Something Maka didn't recognise. I'm not saying that businesses SHOULD 'discriminate', I just don't personally care if they do or not. If I saw a sign saying 'No _____', they wouldn't have my business as I would disagree with their politics. Like the bakery in question - I probably wouldn't have ordered from them if I thought their Christian beliefs/morals/politics conflicted with mine. However, I support their right to refuse service for the reasons they did. And, at least everyone now knows about them and their politics so potential customers can shop from a position of knowledge. But with your comment of, basically, 'white men will never suffer meaningful discrimination', you admit that they will still suffer discrimination, just not of a sufficient level with which to gain any support from any other discriminated group. But the way this subject is discussed, it's almost as if we're living in far more'-ist' times than 50/60 years ago. It was illegal to be gay, way back when... now, not getting a gay message on a cake in a predominantly religious country is seen as the height of oppression! The mere mention that POC and 'trans' people aren't oppressed in the modern day gets you labeled a 'Nazi'... so not using a preferred pronoun equates to The Holocaust??? According to many SJWs, we now live in the most '-ist' time in the history of the world... seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I'm not saying that businesses SHOULD 'discriminate', I just don't personally care if they do or not. If I saw a sign saying 'No _____', they wouldn't have my business as I would disagree with their politics. Like the bakery in question - I probably wouldn't have ordered from them if I thought their Christian beliefs/morals/politics conflicted with mine. However, I support their right to refuse service for the reasons they did. And, at least everyone now knows about them and their politics so potential customers can shop from a position of knowledge. But with your comment of, basically, 'white men will never suffer meaningful discrimination', you admit that they will still suffer discrimination, just not of a sufficient level with which to gain any support from any other discriminated group. But the way this subject is discussed, it's almost as if we're living in far more'-ist' times than 50/60 years ago. It was illegal to be gay, way back when... now, not getting a gay message on a cake in a predominantly religious country is seen as the height of oppression! The mere mention that POC and 'trans' people aren't oppressed in the modern day gets you labeled a 'Nazi'... so not using a preferred pronoun equates to The Holocaust??? According to many SJWs, we now live in the most '-ist' time in the history of the world... seriously? My bold Obviously that fits with your 'Lord of the Flies' narrative where society starts again without authority. However, you do understand why a modern inclusive society does care, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I'm not saying that businesses SHOULD 'discriminate', I just don't personally care if they do or not. If I saw a sign saying 'No _____', they wouldn't have my business as I would disagree with their politics. Like the bakery in question - I probably wouldn't have ordered from them if I thought their Christian beliefs/morals/politics conflicted with mine. However, I support their right to refuse service for the reasons they did. And, at least everyone now knows about them and their politics so potential customers can shop from a position of knowledge. But with your comment of, basically, 'white men will never suffer meaningful discrimination', you admit that they will still suffer discrimination, just not of a sufficient level with which to gain any support from any other discriminated group. But the way this subject is discussed, it's almost as if we're living in far more'-ist' times than 50/60 years ago. It was illegal to be gay, way back when... now, not getting a gay message on a cake in a predominantly religious country is seen as the height of oppression! The mere mention that POC and 'trans' people aren't oppressed in the modern day gets you labeled a 'Nazi'... so not using a preferred pronoun equates to The Holocaust??? According to many SJWs, we now live in the most '-ist' time in the history of the world... seriously? So you're saying that discrimination shouldn't be illegal. Although you might choose not to discriminate, it should be okay for businesses to discriminate. You say that as a hetro white male of course, a very easy position to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26b-6 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 So you're saying that discrimination shouldn't be illegal. Although you might choose not to discriminate, it should be okay for businesses to discriminate. You say that as a hetro white male of course, a very easy position to be in. Businesses should have the right to refuse service or goods to anyone. Is this Okay? absolutley! If I know a business is racist or homophobic I can avoid them and ensure a non-prejudice company takes my hard earned money. ---------- Post added 17-10-2018 at 21:49 ---------- My bold Obviously that fits with your 'Lord of the Flies' narrative where society starts again without authority. However, you do understand why a modern inclusive society does care, don't you? Yes modern societies want to know which businesses have no racial homophobic values. Unlike you, I want racist and homophobic business to fail, not to prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Businesses should have the right to refuse service or goods to anyone. Is this Okay? absolutley! If I know a business is racist or homophobic I can avoid them and ensure a non-prejudice company takes my hard earned money. ...and if everywhere in a village or town that has rooms to rent refuses to let to Irish or black people, where do these people go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts