Top Cats Hat Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 So to do something offensive that anyone is aware off... No. The crime is doing something offensive that anyone is aware of WITH THE INTENTION of causing harassment, alarm, or distress. The Crown needs to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that what you said or did was with the express intention of causing distress, not simply that you said or did it. That is why the police have apparently searched the guys houses. If they are asked to give an account of their behaviour under caution and simply say that they were very drunk, it was a spur of the moment thing and meant no harm by it, then the CPS will not prosecute. If however the police take their phones and laptops and find that they regularly share racist jokes and comments, chat about 'this great idea we have for bonfire night' or even have posted 'Grenfell jokes' after the event, then it is much more likely that a magistrate will be convinced that they intended to cause offence and they will be found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 What motivates people to joke about a horrific tragedy? Regardless of the how and why some people were living in the tower, they suffered death, bereavement and the loss of any treasured belongings they may have had. The shock waves that went through the country when the blaze was being reported on can't have touched these people if they could see any humour in it. More evidence that its not skin colour or ethnicity that divides, it's behaviour. I know no one who is that cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choogling Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Get real, people will always make sick jokes about any current in the news item just ignore it, most people on Nov 5th were celebrating the disembowelling and burning to death of an anti government plotter. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 16:34 ---------- What motivates people to joke about a horrific tragedy? Regardless of the how and why some people were living in the tower, they suffered death, bereavement and the loss of any treasured belongings they may have had. The shock waves that went through the country when the blaze was being reported on can't have touched these people if they could see any humour in it. More evidence that its not skin colour or ethnicity that divides, it's behaviour. I know no one who is that cruel. Loads of folk in the pub last night thought it was funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Micturating in public would almost always result in a charge though. It's not a thought crime, it's an actual "offensive" through spraying bodily waste around crime. Burning a symbol is (barring environmental crime) purely a thought crime. I didn't say it was a thought crime, these things actually happened. Urinating in public may result in a charge of 'indecent behaviour' However, the key to the case I highlighted was the Cenotaph, which when urinated upon, could be argued that it outraged public decency. The same as publicly burning a poppy (and what that represents to the vast population) could be seen to outrage public decency. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 16:36 ---------- Loads of folk in the pub last night thought it was funny Funny how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotequila Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Funny how? I assume they thought it was funny that people burned to death. What lovely examples of humanity they must be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 No. The crime is doing something offensive that anyone is aware of WITH THE INTENTION of causing harassment, alarm, or distress. The Crown needs to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that what you said or did was with the express intention of causing distress, not simply that you said or did it. Well, unless they can read minds or you actually told someone that you intended to cause distress I can't see how they can ever prove that. That is why the police have apparently searched the guys houses. If they are asked to give an account of their behaviour under caution and simply say that they were very drunk, it was a spur of the moment thing and meant no harm by it, then the CPS will not prosecute. If however the police take their phones and laptops and find that they regularly share racist jokes and comments, chat about 'this great idea we have for bonfire night' or even have posted 'Grenfell jokes' after the event, then it is much more likely that a magistrate will be convinced that they intended to cause offence and they will be found guilty. Has causing offence just become the same as causing distress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 I didn't say it was a thought crime, these things actually happened. Urinating in public may result in a charge of 'indecent behaviour' However, the key to the case I highlighted was the Cenotaph, which when urinated upon, could be argued that it outraged public decency. The same as publicly burning a poppy (and what that represents to the vast population) could be seen to outrage public decency. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 16:36 ---------- Funny how? Same as that University student who urinated on the war memorial outside John Lewis' in Sheffield centre a few years ago. I know that he left University & Sheffield shortly afterwards, I can't remember whether that was his own choice, or the decision of the University. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 17:22 ---------- Get real, people will always make sick jokes about any current in the news item just ignore it, most people on Nov 5th were celebrating the disembowelling and burning to death of an anti government plotter. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 16:34 ---------- Loads of folk in the pub last night thought it was funny I like to think I've got a broad sense of humour, but I can't find anything remotely funny about it. ---------- Post added 06-11-2018 at 17:27 ---------- Well, unless they can read minds or you actually told someone that you intended to cause distress I can't see how they can ever prove that. Has causing offence just become the same as causing distress? The pressure group, Justice4Grenfell are quoted as saying that what the men did was 'clearly a hate crime'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46099562 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobinfoot Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 These are idiots and offensive neither is a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 The pressure group, Justice4Grenfell are quoted as saying that what the men did was 'clearly a hate crime'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46099562 A hate crime against a certain ethnicity? Surely not all the people that live in Grenfell town were brown, although it might appear like that from the media coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On the radio it said for a Public Order offence - not sure which. Indecency? Public order act is where words or publications can be offensive to others (like in this case) but its ok when you are in private, putting it on the internet is NOT private. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46112026 I've been taken to court for it back in the day for having a swearword on the sleeve of my jacket which was part of a logo. Far far less offensive than this...nobody died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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