Second referendum time? SF Poll

[woodview]

9 minutes ago, helloitsonly said:

it was never going to go well seeing as Theresa may was a remainer anyway was it? she was always going to do the halfway deal which is why we are in the mess we are now.

I think holding a GM, then having to give DUP the balance of power was the mess-creator.

If Labour had chipped in to get a solution that worked for everyone, we could have actually been in a much stroger position much sooner. As it is, the NI border has been a fantastic crack for the EU to chip away at.

As it stands, the mess isn't so huge. We will be going in to a CU, where things stay as they are for now for 2 years, followed by an FTA, where we are out of the eu properly. The biggest issue is the deal wording, being able to (not) come out of the CU and into the FTA.

[Ridgewalk]

17 minutes ago, helloitsonly said:

it was never going to go well seeing as Theresa may was a remainer anyway was it? she was always going to do the halfway deal which is why we are in the mess we are now.

 

Well that’s one theory why were in such a mess. It was Davies, Fox and Farage who said that it was going to be really easy. They’ve all nicely sidled off out of the limelight. Boris was the most shocked person in UK the morning after the Referendum, it wasn’t supposed to happen after all, it really wasn’t Boris’s plan, as we were soon tô discover

Edited November 21, 2018 by Ridgewalk

[Robin-H]

4 minutes ago, woodview said:

I think holding a GM, then having to give DUP the balance of power was the mess-creator.

If Labour had chipped in to get a solution that worked for everyone, we could have actually been in a much stroger position much sooner. As it is, the NI border has been a fantastic crack for the EU to chip away at.

As it stands, the mess isn't so huge. We will be going in to a CU, where things stay as they are for now for 2 years, followed by an FTA, where we are out of the eu properly. The biggest issue is the deal wording, being able to (not) come out of the CU and into the FTA.

 

What Labour solution would work for everyone? 

[helloitsonly]

20 minutes ago, geared said:

but would you have Gove or Boris as PM??

Boris every time, he may not be the choice of some but he would definitely do the right deal and compromises without giving away the uk to europe.  Gove has played a smart smarmy game by not resigning unlike Raab.

Edited November 21, 2018 by helloitsonly

[woodview]

4 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

 

What Labour solution would work for everyone? 

My bad wording. I meant work with tories in a joint process, to come up with a solution that works better for everyone (or most people). As it stands they have just been obstructive, effectively forcing tories to be blackmailed by dup. That's led to the the process been much harder and a potentially worse outcome, very late in the day.

[Robin-H]

2 minutes ago, helloitsonly said:

Boris every time, he may not be the choice of some but he would definitely do the right deal and compromises without giving away the uk to europe.  Gove has played a smart smarmy game by not resigning unlike Raab.

 

But it would not just up to Boris (or whoever was in charge) - it's a negotiation, with two sides. Why would Boris be able to get a better deal out of the EU than Mrs May (or anyone else for that matter?) 

3 minutes ago, woodview said:

My bad wording. I meant work with tories in a joint process, to come up with a solution that works better for everyone (or most people). As it stands they have just been obstructive, effectively forcing tories to be blackmailed by dup. That's led to the the process been much harder and a potentially worse outcome, very late in the day.

 

Yes. It would be easier if they hadn't played politics with it, and come up with 6 tests that it is impossible to meet whilst respecting the referendum result. 

[geared]

They have recently been trying to push amendments through to prevent a no-deal Brexit, effectively forcing the Tory's to sort a deal out or stop (or delay) the exit.

Obviously no-one knows if thats even possible at an EU level with regards to Article 50, I believe they have a no 'takey-backey' rule?

[helloitsonly]

1 minute ago, Robin-H said:

 

But it would not just up to Boris (or whoever was in charge) - it's a negotiation, with two sides. Why would Boris be able to get a better deal out of the EU than Mrs May (or anyone else for that matter?) 

a negotiation always has to have a side that is prepared to walk away, the eu is in a weaker position because if we did walk away  there are other member who will not be far behind and the whole house of cards collapses.

[woodview]

1 minute ago, Robin-H said:

 

But it would not just up to Boris (or whoever was in charge) - it's a negotiation, with two sides. Why would Boris be able to get a better deal out of the EU than Mrs May (or anyone else for that matter?) 

 

 

Re: Boris, I'm not saying he's the right man for the job. But there are big differences in potential outcome with who isleading it. He is , on the face of it, a leave supporter, so things that TM might find 'reasonable' in the negotiation, Boris wouldn't. That's not to say he'd get the 'right' outcome.

I do have sympathy for TM, and I do recognise the country was 50:50 ish on the referendum, so a compromise deal as she's done might not be satisfactory to the extreme Remainers or extreme Leavers, but 'might' be the best compromise for the silent majority in the middle.

[geared]

5 minutes ago, helloitsonly said:

a negotiation always has to have a side that is prepared to walk away, the eu is in a weaker position because if we did walk away  there are other member who will not be far behind and the whole house of cards collapses.

The EU is definitely not in a weaker position, it is most certainly us.

 

WE want single market access

WE want free trade

WE want visa-free travel

WE want EU immigration control

WE want to be outside of ECJ juristiction

Edited November 21, 2018 by geared