Second referendum time? SF Poll

[craig12]

I think the result was to leave the eu from the uk people , not get us a deal , what an insult to the uk people , 

[Robin-H]

6 minutes ago, helloitsonly said:

no they want to make it difficult to leave to give a warning to other members and Theresa may was the perfect opponent as she was always a remainer at heart no matter what she says and would always give away too much ? which she has.

What has she given away that someone else negotiating would have persuaded the EU otherwise? 

[L00b]

So many posts in here since I logged in earlier today, and so much ignorance it's mind-boggling. Sigh.

 

The EU isn't negotiating with the UK. The EU27 are, through a common agent.

 

The EU27 have all the cards in this negotiation, as a group of pooled interests they always did.

 

There was never any cake for the UK to have and eat, because of the unifying principle brought about by the 4 pillars of the Single Market: the German car manufacturers were never going to come to the Brexiteers' rescue, because the Single Market is worth far more to them in real terms than the trade excedent with the UK. They know the business value of EU membership, Brexiteers don't.

 

The EU isn't afraid of other members leaving after the UK: there is no interest in or leaning towards leaving the EU in any of the other 27. Even in Hungary, Greece and Italy. Quite the contrary, everyone in the EU27 has looked on the UK since 2016 and, to this day, are just bewildered and bemused by this monumental act of self-harm: populists in the EU27 know better than to try and use the UK as an example in theur snake oil, because they know they'd instantly come across as irredeemable crackpots.

 

The UK took its exceptionalism that step too far. Now it's learning its place. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by L00b

[andyofborg]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

What has she given away that someone else negotiating would have persuaded the EU otherwise? 

what makes you think anyone could have done better?

2 hours ago, helloitsonly said:

no they want to make it difficult to leave to give a warning to other members 

how have they made it difficult?

[woodview]

44 minutes ago, L00b said:

So many posts in here since I logged in earlier today, and so much ignorance it's mind-boggling. Sigh.

 

The EU isn't negotiating with the UK. The EU27 are, through a common agent.

 

The EU27 have all the cards in this negotiation, as a group of pooled interests they always did.

 

There was never any cake for the UK to have and eat, because of the unifying principle brought about by the 4 pillars of the Single Market: the German car manufacturers were never going to come to the Brexiteers' rescue, because the Single Market is worth far more to them in real terms than the trade excedent with the UK. They know the business value of EU membership, Brexiteers don't.

 

The EU isn't afraid of other members leaving after the UK: there is no interest in or leaning towards leaving the EU in any of the other 27. Even in Hungary, Greece and Italy. Quite the contrary, everyone in the EU27 has looked on the UK since 2016 and, to this day, are just bewildered and bemused by this monumental act of self-harm: populists in the EU27 know better than to try and use the UK as an example in theur snake oil, because they know they'd instantly come across as irredeemable crackpots.

 

The UK took its exceptionalism that step too far. Now it's learning its place. 

Why would the eu waste any time negotiating at all then? The negotiation and deal has benefits for them and us, to assume otherwise is a mistake. I'm not saying we are the best thing sliced bread and they'll come grovelling round. But we are a very important partner and very worthwhile to maintain a good relationship with.

[Baron99]

Magilla you posted;

 

`When you buy goods online, you can return them once you've had the opportunity to inspect the goods and realise they're not what you thought you were getting.`

 

Well we bought the goods back in the 70's.  You might say we were mislead into what we bought? 

 

The manufacturer kept taking the goods back & changing the dimensions without us having any say so. 

 

So when you state you should be able to return the goods once we had the opportunity to inspect them, I think 40 plus years is long enough to make a well informed assessment. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Baron99
Amendments

[Robin-H]

1 hour ago, andyofborg said:

what makes you think anyone could have done better?

how have they made it difficult?

I don't think anyone could do better, that's the point. 

[Magilla]

12 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Well we bought the goods back in the 70's.  You might say we were mislead into what we bought? 

Why? It worked exactly as it was supposed to do and was very profitable. Still is.

 

No one was mislead.

 

12 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

The manufacturer kept taking the goods back & changing the dimensions without us having any say so. 

We are on the board of the manufacturers

 

12 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

So when you state you should be able to return the goods once we had the opportunity to inspect them, I think 40 plus years is long enough to make a well informed assessment. 

... aye, but then you saw the replacement and realised..... it wasn't so bad afterall

[Cyclone]

11 hours ago, woodview said:

Why would the eu waste any time negotiating at all then? The negotiation and deal has benefits for them and us, to assume otherwise is a mistake. I'm not saying we are the best thing sliced bread and they'll come grovelling round. But we are a very important partner and very worthwhile to maintain a good relationship with.

This has been the nonsense the brexiteers have spouted for 2 years now.  The EU don't seem to agree though that we are important enough to have our cake and eat it.

[L00b]

11 hours ago, woodview said:

Why would the eu waste any time negotiating at all then? The negotiation and deal has benefits for them and us, to assume otherwise is a mistake. I'm not saying we are the best thing sliced bread and they'll come grovelling round. But we are a very important partner and very worthwhile to maintain a good relationship with.

The EU27 have “wasted time” negotiating precisely because the U.K. can remain a partner worth having a good relationship with.

 

The mistakes of Brexiteers have been to vastly overestimate the U.K. in their understanding of the balance of power in that relationship, and then to petulantly indulge in an orgy of jingoistic nonsense when they ran smack into the reality of the U.K.’s position.

 

As I said, the U.K. is learning its place, in the EU and in the world. This is a good thing: future FTA negotiations, with the EU27 and the rest of the world, should benefit from this early reality check.