Second referendum time? SF Poll

[Magilla]

3 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

Full Brexit. No Deal. No money to Brussels.

 

It's what the majority of ordinary, decent people now want. Give our money to the NHS - NOT to the big business loving EU.  

No, it isn't, quite the opposite in-fact. Even your beloved Labour don't want anything resembling that.

[L00b]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

I'm not au fait with savings statistics, but I do know we are in a period of wage growth. People may simply be spending the extra money or paying off debt rather than saving. In terms of a referendum, Osbornes predicted recession, tax rises  etc etc haven't happened. Growth has remained, as has wage growth. So, my comment simply refers to the 'if things carry on like they have' phrase in your post.

Sure ,things are dismal for lots of people. Are they because of Brexit? I'd say other factors vastly  or completely outstrip any effect of the Leave vote.

Your growth fell of a cliff since 2016 (relative to where it was and it’s trajectory then), and you’ve been trailing the G7 and slowing down ever since. It doesn’t need to reach “recession” (although some sectors have met the definition in 2018, eg building), for the economic effect to be felt. And you’re £1tn lighter in (ex-) invested assets as of this week, with record business closure levels.

 

About tax rises, perhaps you’ll recall Spreadsheet Phil’s latest budget of only some weeks ago: your tax rises are coming in now, and you haven’t left yet.

 

Sure, keep looking at ‘wage growth’ and ‘full employment’ stats. A bloke stacking trolleys in a car park 1 hour a week is ‘employed’ according to government metrics, and I suppose a 1% pay rise on MinWage is ‘wage growth’.

 

That’ll keep the NHS in doctors and meds 👍

Edited November 26, 2018 by L00b

[Baron99]

Given that those who bothered to vote in Sheffield in the EU referendum, (67. 3% of us according to the BBC), with a 51% majority voting to leave, as Mps are always banging on about democracy, shouldn't they vote in favour of what May has signed up for or along party (Lab) lines? 

 

[Ridgewalk]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:46 AM, woodview said:

That's right, it's one of the major issues many had. But it's easier for many on forums to revert to the old favourites of implying xenophobia on people who disagree with them, so it tends to be discussed less.

The people I know, conversations I heard on public transport, in pubs, in cafes or saw interviewed on TV or heard on’radio all gave immigration as the reason they were voting Leave.  Eg  TV interviewer in Barnsley, must have spoken to 10 people who all gave their reason  to vote Leave asimmigration. One bloke said  he was voting Leave because he «  didn’t want them Muslims coming in ....I don’t mind Europeans, but I don’t want them  Muslims « 

 

This went along with a lot of anti- foreigner and flag waving guff. Unfortunately, for you presumably, you are all tarred with the same brush. Backward, insular, narrow, stuck’in a 1950s Rule Britannia  fantasy time warp. My in-laws are Daily Mail readers my step-son and son in law both Sun readers, and all voted Leave.

 

I’m not saying  all those who voted Leave meet that stereotype.

 

i don’t think’there should be another Referendum.

 

Those anti foreigner xenophobes are going to get a shock when they see those who are going to replace  EU citizens in  the Health’, Catering, Caring, Hospitality and other industries 

[Wine Gum]

Before the first vote the electorate thought that the vote was about immigration and the NHS.

The people who voted out thought that by now we would be seeing all the economic migrants being rounded up and rightly sent home, thus easing the massive pressure on the NHS.

What it is really about, is a few nasty politicians like Boris , getting complete control so that they can make the country even better for the already wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

[Baron99]

38 minutes ago, Ridgewalk said:

The people I know, conversations I heard on public transport, in pubs, in cafes or saw interviewed on TV or heard on’radio all gave immigration as the reason they were voting Leave.  Eg  TV interviewer in Barnsley, must have spoken to 10 people who all gave their reason  to vote Leave asimmigration. One bloke said  he was voting Leave because he «  didn’t want them Muslims coming in ....I don’t mind Europeans, but I don’t want them  Muslims « 

 

This went along with a lot of anti- foreigner and flag waving guff. Unfortunately, for you presumably, you are all tarred with the same brush. Backward, insular, narrow, stuck’in a 1950s Rule Britannia  fantasy time warp. My in-laws are Daily Mail readers my step-son and son in law both Sun readers, and all voted Leave.

 

I’m not saying  all those who voted Leave meet that stereotype.

 

i don’t think’there should be another Referendum.

 

Those anti foreigner xenophobes are going to get a shock when they see those who are going to replace  EU citizens in  the Health’, Catering, Caring, Hospitality and other industries 

I do think that the immigration issue is a bit of a misnomer, banded about at the time of the referendum by the Remain supporters.  Funny such comments probably backfired on them. 

 

Most people who voted to leave had probably already decided their views back when Blair hinted he'd give the UK electorate a vote in 2004 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2004/apr/20/eu.politics6

 

as one of the reasons to vote him back in. 

 

The majority of views to leave aren't based on the unfetted immigration policies, compounded under Lab administrations overseen by Blair & Brown & blown aperture by the likes of Lab's Frank Fields, as being a social experiment that would benefit Lab in the future by increasing their vote; lowering wages of the lower paid \ less skilled \ poorer educated, while the likes of Germany & France blocked the Eastern European migration for another decade. 

 

It does make me laugh when I see a pro Remainer in their late teens or early 20's accusing those who have lived & seen the Common Market; EEC; EU; over the past 45 years of only voting to leave on the grounds of immigration. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Baron99
Amendments

[woodview]

1 hour ago, Ridgewalk said:

The people I know, conversations I heard on public transport, in pubs, in cafes or saw interviewed on TV or heard on’radio all gave immigration as the reason they were voting Leave.  Eg  TV interviewer in Barnsley, must have spoken to 10 people who all gave their reason  to vote Leave asimmigration. One bloke said  he was voting Leave because he «  didn’t want them Muslims coming in ....I don’t mind Europeans, but I don’t want them  Muslims « 

 

This went along with a lot of anti- foreigner and flag waving guff. Unfortunately, for you presumably, you are all tarred with the same brush. Backward, insular, narrow, stuck’in a 1950s Rule Britannia  fantasy time warp. My in-laws are Daily Mail readers my step-son and son in law both Sun readers, and all voted Leave.

 

I’m not saying  all those who voted Leave meet that stereotype.

 

i don’t think’there should be another Referendum.

 

Those anti foreigner xenophobes are going to get a shock when they see those who are going to replace  EU citizens in  the Health’, Catering, Caring, Hospitality and other industries 

Immigration was a reason lots of people voted Leave. First, that doesn't make them xenophobic, it simply means they think immigration is too high. Some may be racist, most not.

It is very common, and you've quickly done the same, to start talking about racist type stuff, and 'accidently' project that onto other Leave voters. It isn't convincing anyone.

Lots of the Leave vote was a backlash by people fed up with being tarred with the stinking racist brush. Most aren't racist, they are decent, people who have genuine concerns about the countries ability to cope, and the impact on housing, the lower paid, health care provision and schooling provision.

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Your growth fell of a cliff since 2016 (relative to where it was and it’s trajectory then), and you’ve been trailing the G7 and slowing down ever since. It doesn’t need to reach “recession” (although some sectors have met the definition in 2018, eg building), for the economic effect to be felt. And you’re £1tn lighter in (ex-) invested assets as of this week, with record business closure levels.

 

About tax rises, perhaps you’ll recall Spreadsheet Phil’s latest budget of only some weeks ago: your tax rises are coming in now, and you haven’t left yet.

 

Sure, keep looking at ‘wage growth’ and ‘full employment’ stats. A bloke stacking trolleys in a car park 1 hour a week is ‘employed’ according to government metrics, and I suppose a 1% pay rise on MinWage is ‘wage growth’.

 

That’ll keep the NHS in doctors and meds 👍

Still going upwards isn't 'falling off a cliff'.

The bloke pushing trollies is earning a wage, and it might seem pitiful to you that someone has to do that, but that bloke is doing it for a reason, and yes, his above inflation wage increase is wage growth.

More people in employment and not on benefits does help keep the NHS in doctors and meds.

[Wine Gum]

Lies, damned lies, statisticts, charts and graphs.

An excellent quotation updated.😀

[lottiecass]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:29 PM, Magilla said:

 

There can't be one before we leave now anyway, there isn't time.

 

The only option is now May's deal, and it looks like it's gaining support..... Weird huh!

Weird enough to get passed? unless there's plenty mp's that have changed their minds its not.

[Magilla]

22 minutes ago, lottiecass said:

Weird enough to get passed? unless there's plenty mp's that have changed their minds its not.

Consitutional crisis to follow That's going to help with business certainty... not!