Second referendum time? SF Poll

[RJRB]

37 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

And if there is a second referendum and the leave vote triumphs again, would you want a third referendum? 

And if there is a second referendum and the leave vote triumphs again, would you want a third referendum

Personally I would not.

I strongly support a second referendum on the oft quoted grounds that the electorate is a lot more educated on the subject than we were in 2016.

All the information that is new to me only confirms my belief that we need to be part of the EU.

However you may choose to stand by whatever form of Brexit is on offer.

If the same simple majority is the result at least it has more credibility of being an informed vote and we will have to get on with it.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by RJRB

[Top Cats Hat]

1 hour ago, BrexitGuy said:

And if there is a second referendum and the leave vote triumphs again, would you want a third referendum? 

36% vs 37% is heardly a triumph.

 

Also leave simply can't win another referendum. Just the change in demographics since June 2016 would put Remain about a million votes ahead and of the people who regretted not voting last time, two out of three of those people supported remain. 

 

To win, the swing from Remain to Leave needs to be around 3%-4%. As every poll in the last two years has seen an increasing shift from Leave to Remain, even if Leave can get all their 2016 supporters out again they would  still be around 4% shy of a victory. And every six months delay in holding a second referendum adds another 300K-500K votes to Remain.

 

Added to that the number of Leave supporters who would refuse to take part in another referendum and we could end up with a 60-40% result in favour of Remain. Leave support is very shouty and high profile but doesn't actually have the numbers to back it up.

 

 

[apelike]

5 hours ago, Cyclone said:

It's in no way legally binding.  The government and parliament are entirely free to disregard it if they wish.

Sorry but it now is. Parliament accepted the outcome and passed The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 which was given Royal Assent to approve it into law, thus endorsing the outcome of the referendum making it and the subsequent withdrawal from the EU legally binding, I.E it created a new law. It also passed another law The EU Withdrawal Bill 2018. The government and parliament cant just disregard laws if they wish  but parliament can repeal or amend any previous legislation if necessary providing it gets a majority vote in parliament.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/acts/

 

2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Added to that the number of Leave supporters who would refuse to take part in another referendum and we could end up with a 60-40% result in favour of Remain. 

I think if there is another referendum then those leave supporters would certainly make sure they voted leave again. Not sure why you seem to think otherwise. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by apelike

[Cyclone]

10 hours ago, BrexitGuy said:

Yes, but they wont. We live in a democracy you see. The leave vote was in favour on the day for a legally binding decision to pull the UK out of the EU. All the rest is politics. Even the EU are saying they wont negotiate and that the UK WILL leave the EU on the 29th. 

How much clearer do the remain camp need this to be? 

Ironically the brexiteers are desperate that we don't have a second democratic referendum, because it looks likely that we'd cancel the entire thing and stay.

The EU said they won't renegotiate, but that we are free to stay if we wish.  They didn't say that we will leave...

5 hours ago, apelike said:

Sorry but it now is. Parliament accepted the outcome and passed The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 which was given Royal Assent to approve it into law, thus endorsing the outcome of the referendum making it and the subsequent withdrawal from the EU legally binding, I.E it created a new law. It also passed another law The EU Withdrawal Bill 2018. The government and parliament cant just disregard laws if they wish  but parliament can repeal or amend any previous legislation if necessary providing it gets a majority vote in parliament.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/acts/

 

I think if there is another referendum then those leave supporters would certainly make sure they voted leave again. Not sure why you seem to think otherwise. 

Sorry but it isn't.  Parliament is not legally constrained to continue with this course of action.  Hence, not legally binding.  That's what the word binding means...

[AntiBrexit]

10 hours ago, BrexitGuy said:

And if there is a second referendum and the leave vote triumphs again, would you want a third referendum? 

And if there is a second referendum and the leave vote triumphs again, would you want a third referendum

The more the people learn of the horrors of an no deal Brexit it makes it more likely that remain would win. Brexit is built on lies and false promises that the grass is greener on the other side.  They should be an referendum parliament is at end of the road a room without an exit. Their would be no need for more referendums the lies of leave campaign have been exposed.

[ANGELFIRE1]

1 hour ago, AntiBrexit said:

The more the people learn of the horrors of an no deal Brexit it makes it more likely that remain would win. Brexit is built on lies and false promises that the grass is greener on the other side.  They should be an referendum parliament is at end of the road a room without an exit. Their would be no need for more referendums the lies of leave campaign have been exposed.

So Brexit was sold on a lie, while Remain was sold on the truth and nothing but the truth. Aye and the moon is made of green cheese.

 

Angel1.

[AntiBrexit]

9 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

So Brexit was sold on a lie, while Remain was sold on the truth and nothing but the truth. Aye and the moon is made of green cheese.

 

Angel1.

Yes Brexit is a lie a devastating one at that if we are crazy enough to go for a new deal we will see. Perhaps we will be wishing that the moon is made of green cheese.

[Magilla]

7 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

So Brexit was sold on a lie, while Remain was sold on the truth and nothing but the truth.

Remain predictions still may be realised, many of them already have been.

 

Leave ones... not so much

 

7 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Aye and the moon is made of green cheese.

The irony is, given the promises of Brexiteers during the ref,  that under some circumstances you'd believe it!

 

Brexit is literally like setting out to mine that cheese!

 

If we all unite, and stop saying there's no cheese... we'll find it... right?

 

 

[woodview]

14 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Remain predictions still may be realised, many of them already have been.

 

Leave ones... not so much

 

The irony is, given the promises of Brexiteers during the ref,  that under some circumstances you'd believe it!

 

Brexit is literally like setting out to mine that cheese!

 

If we all unite, and stop saying there's no cheese... we'll find it... right?

 

 

What happened to Osbornes predictions that would happen immediately following a leave vote then??? They were lies and have been clearly demonstrated to be. To deny something that was said and actually did not happen is pointless.

[Magilla]

7 minutes ago, woodview said:

What happened to Osbornes predictions that would happen immediately following a leave vote then???

They were wrong on timescale, whether they'll be realised over a longer term... quite possibly.

 

7 minutes ago, woodview said:

They were lies and have been clearly demonstrated to be.

The immediate impact, clearly. Whether they'll be in the long term, not so clear.

 

7 minutes ago, woodview said:

To deny something that was said and actually did not happen is pointless.

I'm not denying anything, as before, remain predictions may still prove correct in the long term.

 

Oh well, at least they weren't rooted in xenophobia and racism

 

To deny something that *was* said and really *did* happen, now that really is pointless