Second referendum time? SF Poll

[Top Cats Hat]

15 minutes ago, apelike said:

As you say its MP's that want to be reelected so may vote with a populist view and in their own interests just to get reelected.

Stephen Lloyd, a Liberal Democrat MP has resigned the Lib Dem whip so that he can support the government in any vote on May's deal.

 

This is not because he supports Brexit but because his constituency voted leave in the 2016 referendum.

[BrexitGuy]

53 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Stephen Lloyd, a Liberal Democrat MP has resigned the Lib Dem whip so that he can support the government in any vote on May's deal.

 

This is not because he supports Brexit but because his constituency voted leave in the 2016 referendum.

His constituents or just people in his borough? Either way, what a total pillock. His job is to work and support his constituents, not jump ship when he doesn't like their views.

[Cyclone]

3 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

His constituents or just people in his borough? Either way, what a total pillock. His job is to work and support his constituents, not jump ship when he doesn't like their views.

He's resigned the whip, not just resigned.  So that he can vote in the way his constituents wanted.

 

Are you sure you understand how our democracy works?

[andyofborg]

3 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

His constituents or just people in his borough? Either way, what a total pillock. His job is to work and support his constituents, not jump ship when he doesn't like their views.

errrr he has done this to support the majority of his constituents views............

[BrexitGuy]

2 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

He's resigned the whip, not just resigned.  So that he can vote in the way his constituents wanted.

 

Are you sure you understand how our democracy works?

Yes, small find on phone and missed the whip word. However I'm not sure you should be asking me if I know how democracy works. Maybe you could ask some of the remainers if they know, seeing as they are convinced there will be a second vote, which there won't be. 

[Top Cats Hat]

8 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

errrr he has done this to support the majority of his constituents views............

The more cynical amongst us would say that he has done it to save his seat come another election.

 

If he stood as a Lib Dem candidate in 2017 then he would have been standing on a remain ticket as that was Lib Dem policy, and therefore elected on a remain ticket. This is yet another case of leave supporters  assuming everyone in a constituency voting leave did so in the same proportion on a party basis as they did on a constituency basis. They are also making the assumption that Brexit is top of the list of every constituent's list of priorities.

[AntiBrexit]

It's time the people were given an chance of another vote some people could lose their jobs though this mess. 

 

The 2016 referendum was flawed in so many ways leave campaign based their ' facts ' on lies remain were too relaxed about the whole affair. Two years of negotiating has resulted in an hopless deadlock no side willing to back down. The final say must be by the people has so many could be affected by this notable the car industry these people need access to the Single Market and the Custom Union to function without this the production will go over seas these people who work in these factories now will be facing unemployment they could loses their homes and families could spilt up over the strain of loseing that wage. The extreme Brexiteers need to look long and hard on the economic impact of this it's no good moaning about unemployment and the Welfare bill going up when your vote has placed these families in that position. We got enough problems in this country without adding more for no reason. We need politicans to stand aside allow for an fact based debate so that an informed decision can be made. I sure no one on the either side of the debate wants too see more social problems  and yet more young families on the streets.  It's time for the people to cast that vote it's either May' s deal or no Brexit. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by AntiBrexit

[Litotes]

42 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

Yes, small find on phone and missed the whip word. However I'm not sure you should be asking me if I know how democracy works. Maybe you could ask some of the remainers if they know, seeing as they are convinced there will be a second vote, which there won't be. 

Democracy includes the opportunity to change one's mind doesn't it?

[Top Cats Hat]

47 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

Maybe you could ask some of the remainers if they know, seeing as they are convinced there will be a second vote, which there won't be. 

I wouldn't be so sure. Let's look at the options.

 

No deal. Supported by probably 30-40 Tory MPs and Kate Hoey. Hillary Benn's amendment means that is now very unlikely that Parliament will allow us to 'fall out of the EU' by default.

 

May's deal. Not enough support last week and unlikely it has any more now given the EU's stated position that the negotiations on the withdrawal deal have ended.

 

No Brexit. Would require a simple vote in Parliament to stop it but I doubt that it would happen on May's watch as she has nailed what is left of her tattered reputation on 'delivering the Brexit people voted for' whatever that might mean.

 

A second referendum. Most MPs and now almost certainly most of the population wish to remain in the EU. I have always said that just as the first referendum didn't oblige us to leave the EU, we don't need the permission of a second one to halt the process. However, I suspect most MPs would be deeply uneasy about halting Brexit without the 'legitimacy' of another referendum, so when push comes to shove they will support the idea. Timing is not an issue. Any legislation passed to enable a second referendum could easily contain a revokation of Article 50 until such a time as the matter was decided.

 

Six months ago, a second referendum was being talked about as a fantasy of remain supporters. Now it has support on all sides and very importantly, is being considered by some cabinet ministers.

 

A second referendum is on its way. The leave campaign knows it and has already started preparations. 

 

 

[apelike]

55 minutes ago, Litotes said:

Democracy includes the opportunity to change one's mind doesn't it?

Only if the government and parliament allow it though as its them that are in charge of our democratic process and not the people. 

32 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I wouldn't be so sure. Let's look at the options.

You missed out one: leave without a deal.