Nice - price motorists off the roads

[ads36]

We've got one car. We sold our 2nd a couple of years ago. It's saving us thousands, every year.

 

Exercise is good for us, and active travel is a great way to build it into our lives. But without safe routes, cycling feels really dangerous, which is a shame, as it doesn't have to be like that. 

 

Cycling is cheap, good for our health, *and* good for our high streets. 

 

The only person who has said 'banning cars' is you. That's a text-book straw man.

Edited January 4, 2019 by ads36

[ECCOnoob]

I don't understand what point you're trying to make then.

 

You reeled off a list earlier about pollution and noise and space being taken up for car parking.  You say you want to reduce car use and reduce car ownership but you still own one.  You must therefore concede that you need it and the alternatives are simply not good enough yet for you to get rid of it altogether.

 

I only have one vehicle anyway so does that mean I'm OK to use mine?  

 

Yes I am deliberately choosing to use a strawman argument of ban cars because like you have done in your own postings its a simplistic approach to my points.

 

Yes I know we are not talking about literally banning cars entirely but the more people are discouraged and the more cost and pressures are put onto motorists that will become the ultimate aim - as has actually been in force in some cities. 

 

My arguments are still valid.  The fact is that until the alternatives to car use are fully in place and fully established these headline grabbing statements and ridiculous proposals will not work.  

 

100 years ago the majority of the population lived within the city boundaries. They did walk to work. They all lived within walking distance. People lived on top of their business premises or within the same compound as them.

 

After the wars and after the city was decimated the slums were pulled down and the majority of people bettered themselves.  They quite rightly decided that they did not want to live 100m away from their factory employer and land on the outskirts of the city was turned into pleasant suburbs for people to live.  As population expanded the suburbs had to expand with it.  We are now in a position where the majority of the population of a city are not able to walk to work or cycle to work easily.  

 

That means that we either have to change back to living in a metropolis with everyone in the city limits or we have to make dramatic improvements to the efficiency, speed and regularity of public transport.  We also have to make sure that it is as cheap as what a car owner would expect for their own journeys.   

 

Without those basics in place nothing will change.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[ads36]

40 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

these headline grabbing statements and ridiculous proposals will not work.  

What ridiculous proposals?!?

 

'make towns and cities less awful places for walking and cycling'

 

Because that's all that really been said. Somehow, this has upset a lot of people. 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by ads36

[geared]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

Let's remember that this thread is in response to NICE suggesting that councils should do more to enable people to make more journeys on foot or bike

Charging them through the nose for car use doesn't really count as enabling.

 

Enabling would involve making more cycle routes, properly maintaining existing cycle routes (so you don't have to dodge massive potholes) and improving public transport infrastructure.

That would enable people to make more journeys on foot or by bike.

[Baron99]

2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Are you sure?

 

It has been accepted for a number of years now, that slowing down and speeding up between speed humps increases vehicle exhaust emissions.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/04/councils-urged-price-motorists-road-nhs-watchdog/amp/

 

Apologies that the entire story won't copy over but it's there in the first paragraph. 

[ads36]

or rather, that's what the telegraph have chosen to put in the first sentence of their coverage...

Edited January 4, 2019 by ads36

[ECCOnoob]

52 minutes ago, ads36 said:

What ridiculous proposals?!?

 

'make towns and cities less awful places for walking and cycling'

 

Because that's all that really been said. Somehow, this has upset a lot of people. 

 

No that's not all that's been said is it.    

 

Its the NICE proposals of encouraging councils to introduce or increase congestion charges, increase traffic reduction schemes, increase traffic calming infrastructure and generally create more difficulties and expense to motorists with the aim of discouraging car use.

 

You cannot see why this may have upset a lot of people????  

 

You cannot see why people may have criticism of concerns about such proposals?    - particarly when, at present, the alternatives to driving for the majority are simply not sufficient or even exist, as he been pointed out to you.     The post from Geared above is a perfect example of that.

 

Encouragement should not just be the simple approach of penalise the motorist.    Improvements need to be made to the alternatives in order to get people out of their cars.    Where is that in the current NICE proposals?  

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[ANGELFIRE1]

4 hours ago, Baron99 said:

NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence), have proposed councils introduce / increase congestion charges in towns & cities & increase the number of road humps & other traffic calming measure to encourage people to walk, cycle & use public transport. 

 

Great as long as you don't have to get anywhere in a hurry, carry a flat-packed wardrobe or fancy waiting for ages for a filthy bus that may or may not turn up, to then hopefully get you into the city centre, so you can then hopefully catch another bus to your destination, while sitting, (or more likely standing), amongst the great unwashed shouting down their mobiles while ignoring their screaming children. 

 

Give me my nice, clean reliable car any day.  

On the money. Very thankful that we have been fortunate enough to have had a car all our lives, well over 50 years any how. So it must be over 5 decades that I last used a bus.

 

Angel1.

[El Cid]

5 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Great as long as you don't have to get anywhere in a hurry, carry a flat-packed wardrobe or fancy waiting for ages for a filthy bus that may or may not turn up, to then hopefully get you into the city centre, so you can then hopefully catch another bus to your destination, while sitting, (or more likely standing), amongst the great unwashed shouting down their mobiles while ignoring their screaming children. 

 

 

Do you dispute that there is a need for people to get more exercise because we are becoming a nation of fatties; or even breathe cleaner air in our cities?

[Baron99]

20 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Do you dispute that there is a need for people to get more exercise because we are becoming a nation of fatties; or even breathe cleaner air in our cities?

Don't dispute for one minute that there is a need for a certain proportion of of the population to get out & get more exercise but owning a car doesn't corralate to being overweight.  I've a car but I'm a fit & healthy man for my age because I also take care of myself.  A couple of dog walks a day takes care of that for starters. We have become a nation of fatties as you call it due to people stuffing their faces not because they sit behind a steering wheel.  Weight & a sedentary lifestyle is down to the individual not Ford, BMW, Honda, etc.  It's funny that even with the current number of vehicles on the road, I don't see anyone saying that you can't pick up an apple & go out for a walk any time you wish. 

 

As for air pollution, reducing the speed of cars via traffic calming measures has been proved to increase exhaust fumes as modern cars aren't designed to run efficiently at low speeds. 

 

Here's an idea that NICE could go with. People stop stuffing your  faces with cheap & nasty, processed fast food & microwaved tv dinners while slumped on the sofa all weekend, binging on box sets.  Or parents, stop youe children from turning into little pokers by limiting the time the sit playing on their Xbox & take them to the local park for a kick about. You can either walk there & back or wait an interminable age for public transport.