Finland and the Basic Income experiment

[woodview]

47 minutes ago, tzijlstra said:

But euhmmm... I pointed out earlier in my calculation that this money is already going to welfare and pensions? Look at it this way - if you were in a household with 3 adults and received 30k a year, would you not work at all and be content with that? Chances are not, that applies to a lot of people out there. It gets even more skewed if it is a 2 adult or 1 adult household. And in the end - that money gets spent again, it isn't like it is sitting still, potted up into a savings account, the amount isn't high enough for that, so it has to keep circulating, that means the government gets VAT on the spend, the corporate tax on 'cigs, sky sports etc.' and so on.

 

It is just a different mechanism of distributing wealth and, in my opinion, it is far fairer than having a selective benefit system.

I wouldn't because I have a strong work ethic and want to provide as much as I can for my family. I think £30k for a household would incentivise some people not to work at all, and others just to do small top-up type work.

[tzijlstra]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

I wouldn't because I have a strong work ethic and want to provide as much as I can for my family. I think £30k for a household would incentivise some people not to work at all, and others just to do small top-up type work.

Why do you think others don't have a work ethic? I appreciate your concern as it is valid for a small portion of the population, but then they probably already have found ways to work as little as possible. For me personally a life without a job would be rather pointless (unless I win the Euromillions of course!) and the people I know feel pretty much the same, as do you?

 

Let's also be realistic - 10K per adult doesn't exactly give you a life of luxury, it is enough to get by on prudently, provided you have access to cheap housing, but not more than that. A car? No sir. Regular drinks with mates in the pub? No sir. Season ticket to the useless punters at Hillsborough? Most definitely not. You see my point I am sure

[woodview]

1 hour ago, tzijlstra said:

Why do you think others don't have a work ethic? I appreciate your concern as it is valid for a small portion of the population, but then they probably already have found ways to work as little as possible. For me personally a life without a job would be rather pointless (unless I win the Euromillions of course!) and the people I know feel pretty much the same, as do you?

 

Let's also be realistic - 10K per adult doesn't exactly give you a life of luxury, it is enough to get by on prudently, provided you have access to cheap housing, but not more than that. A car? No sir. Regular drinks with mates in the pub? No sir. Season ticket to the useless punters at Hillsborough? Most definitely not. You see my point I am sure

Because lots of people would rather not work. That is human nature to many people.

 

If you were paying <£100 pw for a 3 bed council house, about £5k pa, it would leave £25k = £480pw for other stuff. Lots of people would give their right arm to have that household disposable income without working, (or working for that matter)

[Olive]

18 minutes ago, woodview said:

Because lots of people would rather not work. That is human nature to many people.

 

If you were paying <£100 pw for a 3 bed council house, about £5k pa, it would leave £25k = £480pw for other stuff. Lots of people would give their right arm to have that household disposable income without working, (or working for that matter)

Maybe that wouldn't be so irksome if you were receiving the same?  

[woodview]

9 minutes ago, Olive said:

Maybe that wouldn't be so irksome if you were receiving the same?  

It would be irksome if I was working 40 hours per week and paying tax to support healthcare, education, police and those in genuine need, yes.

[tzijlstra]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

It would be irksome if I was working 40 hours per week and paying tax to support healthcare, education, police and those in genuine need, yes.

You already are paying tax?

[woodview]

17 minutes ago, tzijlstra said:

You already are paying tax?

yes, plenty. Which is fine if it is being used for worthwhile uses, like the things I mentioned.

[tzijlstra]

25 minutes ago, woodview said:

yes, plenty. Which is fine if it is being used for worthwhile uses, like the things I mentioned.

Like welfare and pensions? Which I demonstrated would be pretty much cost-neutral? Especially if you make more than 30k annually?

[woodview]

3 minutes ago, tzijlstra said:

Like welfare and pensions? Which I demonstrated would be pretty much cost-neutral? Especially if you make more than 30k annually?

Yes, like pensions. You demonstrated that it would cost somebody on £27k would be taking home £1500 pa less.

But why pay a family doing nothing £30k? I'd support that going on wages for extra Police, Nurses, Teachers, Social workers, but not a family choosing to do no work.

[tzijlstra]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

Yes, like pensions. You demonstrated that it would cost somebody on £27k would be taking home £1500 pa less.

But why pay a family doing nothing £30k? I'd support that going on wages for extra Police, Nurses, Teachers, Social workers, but not a family choosing to do no work.

And what if people end up with a higher average income because they have a 10K guaranteed income?