Shamima Begum

[Bob Arctor]

48 minutes ago, scrapper said:

the grooming gang victims were drugged givin booze and were subjected to violence and threats to themselfs and there familys ,no ention of any of these things happening to her.like albert smith said crap comment .

Yes, all of those things were done to them, which is why people are rightly outraged. They weren't abducted by their abusers though, they went with them. Why? Because they were groomed. Their abusers cynically showered them with attention, gifts, affection. Because they knew that would get them where they wanted them. Daesh recruiters do the same, and they also target children.

 

We either decide that children can be manipulated into doing things by adults or we decide that they make their own choices. We can't pick and choose depending on how we feel about the child in question.

[scrapper]

in what way was she groomed,the only thing she mentions is watching videos ,hardley the same is it.

 

 

[iansheff]

And her lawyer is comparing her to a WW1 veteran, God knows what planet he is on but should be taken before the body that is in control of lawyers and charged with bringing them into disrepute. He is saying she was traumatised and comparing her to victims who were in the middle of shell shots in WW1, what an insult to veterans that fought for this country as opposed to her, who went and sided against us.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/shamima-begum-lawyer-compares-first-14013785

Edited February 18, 2019 by iansheff

[Halibut]

22 minutes ago, iansheff said:

And her lawyer is comparing her to a WW1 veteran, God knows what planet he is on but should be taken before the body that is in control of lawyers and charged with bringing them into disrepute. He is saying she was traumatised and comparing her to victims who were in the middle of shell shots in WW1, what an insult to veterans that fought for this country as opposed to her, who went and sided against us.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/shamima-begum-lawyer-compares-first-14013785

Just when I thought I'd heard the most over the top, insanely exaggerated nonsense there was to be heard about this story, here comes you with this ridiculousness.

[bendix]

I have little sympathy for her, except insofar as she was a child when she made this appalling decision.  

 

I'm a conservative, but sometimes when I read Sheffield Forum I have to shake my head at the hatred and bigotry I see here.  And then I remember:  parts of Sheffield are UKIP / BF strongholds and it all makes sense.

 

I'm reading EP Thompson's The Making of the English Working Class at the moment.  It's fascinating, particularly in its treatment of Sheffield as a leading light in the gradual awakening of political self-awareness of the working class in this country, and the role its reformist and liberal groups played in the development of democracy.  Those leaders would turn in their graves today.

 

[Halibut]

28 minutes ago, bendix said:

I have little sympathy for her, except insofar as she was a child when she made this appalling decision.  

 

I'm a conservative, but sometimes when I read Sheffield Forum I have to shake my head at the hatred and bigotry I see here.  And then I remember:  parts of Sheffield are UKIP / BF strongholds and it all makes sense.

 

I'm reading EP Thompson's The Making of the English Working Class at the moment.  It's fascinating, particularly in its treatment of Sheffield as a leading light in the gradual awakening of political self-awareness of the working class in this country, and the role its reformist and liberal groups played in the development of democracy.  Those leaders would turn in their graves today.

 

You and me both. It's shameful. And yes, they'd be spinning like tops.

[bendix]

At the end of the day, this stupid girl made stupid decisions when she was a child.   OK, she doesn't come across as particularly likeable now, but let's be sensible here:  she is a barely articulate, barely educated numptie who is trying to deal with the media attention.  She has said some incredibly stupid things.  Having said that, she came across as a typical teenager; idiotic yet full of bravado, and now really aware of how stupid they seem.

 

Sky News this morning had a beautiful and highly articulate former ISIS bride who is now doing good work in the US. The contrast was stark.  

 

However, she is a UK citizen and she has the right to return here. When she is back, she must rightly be interviewed at length by the security services and, likely, monitored by a variety of agencies - social services, police etc - for a while.  

[iansheff]

1 hour ago, Halibut said:

Just when I thought I'd heard the most over the top, insanely exaggerated nonsense there was to be heard about this story, here comes you with this ridiculousness.

You are entitled to your opinion, but for her lawyer to compare her situation to the soldiers that were killed in that horrific conflict is disgusting. Those soldiers had no option to be there and to fight for their lives and country, She on the other hand went there to side with ISIS and produce children, had her children lived, and ISIS not been defeated they would have been brought up to hate the west and our values. Her children would most probably have ended up fighting with ISIS from a young age, maybe even made to be  suicide bombers.

[bendix]

7 minutes ago, iansheff said:

You are entitled to your opinion, but for her lawyer to compare her situation to the soldiers that were killed in that horrific conflict is disgusting. Those soldiers had no option to be there and to fight for their lives and country, She on the other hand went there to side with ISIS and produce children, had her children lived, and ISIS not been defeated they would have been brought up to hate the west and our values. Her children would most probably have ended up fighting with ISIS from a young age, maybe even made to be  suicide bombers.

I think it's a fair comparison at one level. As a child, she opted to put herself in the middle of a terrible, bloody, war-like environment.  You can argue the toss over her motivations; she went there thinking she was fighting for a good cause, as did they. Both were wrong. But in terms of impact on her it's a valid point.

 

Your last sentence is hyperbolic nonsense.

Edited February 18, 2019 by bendix

[danot]

4 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

When Shamima Begum left  the  UK with her friends,  the media was full of how they had been groomed.  The only differences that I can  see from what happened in Rochdale and Rotherham  are the purposes for which they were groomed and the fact that the victims in one instance are Muslims and in the other they are not.  The process was the same.

The girls who were groomed and repeatedly raped would prefer that it hadn't happened but Begum has no regrets at all. She obviously stands by her baby's father and his cause. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by danot