I1L2T3 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, apelike said: Because that democratic vote was for us to leave and so far it has not been implemented. When we have left then its fine to have another vote. Should it be implemented if it doesn’t make sense to do so? There are abundant examples of failed government policy Brexit is just another failed policy 28 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Unbelievable. The EU protecting it's single market business interests by forcing the Irish Republic to erect and maintain a hard border may incite conflict, but we shouldn't blame it for this? Meanwhile the WTO says its rules wouldn't force either the EU or the UK to erect a hard Irish border: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 It seems it's only the EU that is eager to bring back a hard border and the long war to Ireland. WTO rules = 10% drop in GDP Edited January 24, 2019 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 46 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Meanwhile the WTO says its rules wouldn't force either the EU or the UK to erect a hard Irish border: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136 " The Geneva-based trade body where countries negotiate the rules of international trade would only intervene in a dispute over trade if one of its 164 member countries made a complaint. " Of which 164 of them *would* make a valid complaint under WTO MFN rules! That's the point! Some have already issued complaints re: quotas. 46 minutes ago, Car Boot said: It seems it's only the EU that is eager to bring back a hard border and the long war to Ireland. Nonsense, merely that you have utterly failed to understand the piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said: Should it be implemented if it doesn’t make sense to do so? There are abundant examples of failed government policy Brexit is just another failed policy WTO rules = 10% drop in GDP Forget the predicted drop in GDP. Crystal ball gazing. Trading by WTO rules don't require the UK or the Irish Republic to protect their borders. The Irish Republic will be required to protect the integrity of the Single Market by erecting and maintaining a hard border, including border checks on vehicles. The EU Single Market is a threat to the peace and stability of Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Forget the predicted drop in GDP. Crystal ball gazing. Trading by WTO rules don't require the UK or the Irish Republic to protect their borders. The Irish Republic will be required to protect the integrity of the Single Market by erecting and maintaining a hard border, including border checks on vehicles. The EU Single Market is a threat to the peace and stability of Ireland. What is your GDP prediction? We can’t be better off because you believe that Brexit should bring job losses and severe economic damage to the middle class and wealthy. In fact your flavour of it would be even worse than 10% because of the damage you would cause to an economically vital section of society. 10%, that is what the economic models are predicting As for your comments on Ireland they are utterly ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Forget the predicted drop in GDP. Crystal ball gazing. Trading by WTO rules don't require the UK or the Irish Republic to protect their borders. Not quite, as the piece you linked to makes clear: Edgar Morgenroth, professor of economics at Dublin City University, said the WTO’s position on the Irish Border was “utterly irrelevant” as, in the absence of a deal, the onus would be on the EU and UK to protect their own respective markets against smuggling or divergent rules on the opposite side of a border. “The WTO rules are neither here nor there. They don’t require you to protect your border,” said Prof Morgenroth. “What does require you to protect your border is protecting the integrity of your single market; it needs to be preserved. Ireland would be required by EU law to do so and it is in Ireland’s interests to do that. Ultimately, it is about protecting jobs.” Quote The Irish Republic will be required to protect the integrity of the Single Market by erecting and maintaining a hard border, including border checks on vehicles. As will the UK, for exactly the same reasons. Did you even bother to read the article you linked? Doesn't sound like it..... Edited January 24, 2019 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, apelike said: Because that democratic vote was for us to leave and so far it has not been implemented. When we have left then its fine to have another vote. That's complete and utter nonsense and you know it! If you have four people in a car and decide to camp at Huff on the Hill but on the way their they find a massive diversion, learn that the weather is appalling and somebody suggests going somewhere else instead, you don't carry on with journey on the grounds that you have already decided to go there. You and I both know that the only reason you don't want a second referendum is because you will lose it and that will kill off the crackpot idea of leaving the EU possibly forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads36 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said: 2 hours ago, ads36 said: How would the UK keeping an open border with Ireland have a negative affect for America and China? It wouldn't at all, which makes it the perfect bargaining chip - they have nothing to lose. America will want us to lower our food standards, so that they can sell us their meat, grain, GM soya products, etc. America will want us to open the NHS to much more international privatisation. Etc. We'll resist that kind of thing, I hope. America will use their objection with the WTO (our tricky Irish border problem) as an excuse for some kind of reactive difficulties imposed on UK goods going to America, Rolls-Royce engines for Boeing would be a good card to play, GE would love that. We'll have no option but to fold, lowering our food standards, selling off large chunks of the NHS, etc. So that America stop impeding UK goods. If we're lucky, America may drop their objection to the border issue, or they may like to keep that winning card for future 'negotiations'. I'm not a strategic thinker, but even I can see this coming a mile off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 It’s all a bit negative on here with those who have a leaning towards Remain. It would be uplifting if those who favour Brexit could give us a few positives that we can look forward to with any version of Brexit that they favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said: That's complete and utter nonsense and you know it! If you have four people in a car and decide to camp at Huff on the Hill but on the way their they find a massive diversion, learn that the weather is appalling and somebody suggests going somewhere else instead, you don't carry on with journey on the grounds that you have already decided to go there. If there were 100 people on a bus and they had a show of hands and 51 said go to Huff on the Hill, so set off there, and the driver went as slow as possible and came up with excuse after excuse why it was tricky, 51 would want her to get on with it 48 would accept they were going there and one annoying passenger would go on and on and on and on and on for the whole journey about why it wasn't fair, why it was rubbish and everyone who wanted to go was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, ads36 said: I'm not a strategic thinker, but even I can see this coming a mile off Not to mention political inconveniences, China forcing concessions re: Tibet/Taiwan/Dalia Lama visits, India wanting free movement etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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