Top Cats Hat Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said: I guess the bottom line is that if the result of a referendum is anywhere near 50/50, the correct result to declare is not "win" or "lose", but "undecided", especially when voting is not compulsory. All water under the bridge now though of course, sadly. Which is something that I have been banging on about for months on here. A non-binding, non compulsory, advisory referendum in which neither option managed to gain the support of even 40% of the electorate is very much in the 'undecided' category and binds a sitting government to nothing. That is why I have always said that there is no need for a second referendum, simply a government (of whatever shade) to put the welfare of the nation first and pass legislation to halt the whole sorry mess. Yes, a fair number of Leave supporters will be upset but let's not forget that whatever the result of the referendum, leave supporters are, and always have been, a minority of the citizens of this country yes, even in England and Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said: Which is something that I have been banging on about for months on here. A non-binding, non compulsory, advisory referendum in which neither option managed to gain the support of even 40% of the electorate is very much in the 'undecided' category and binds a sitting government to nothing. That is why I have always said that there is no need for a second referendum, simply a government (of whatever shade) to put the welfare of the nation first and pass legislation to halt the whole sorry mess. Yes, a fair number of Leave supporters will be upset but let's not forget that whatever the result of the referendum, leave supporters are, and always have been, a minority of the citizens of this country yes, even in England and Wales. Halting Brexit would inflict huge damage on our political and social stability. It would almost certainly lead to a rise in extremism and may even encourage terrorism. All because an entitled, spoilt group of very wealthy Remainers refuse to accept the democratic result of the biggest and most popular vote in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Halting Brexit would inflict huge damage on our political and social stability. It would almost certainly lead to a rise in extremism and may even encourage terrorism. Don't talk such rubbish! Did you see how many people turned out for that UKIP/EDL/Leave means Leave/Brexit Betrayal march in December when it first started to look like there was a realistic chance that Brexit was not going to happen? Less than 5000 and more than three times that number turned up to oppose it. Less than a month before that over 700,000 people had attended a People's Vote march in London. Let's face it, sacking off Brexit will lead to a hugh sigh of relief in most parts and yes, a few windows will be smashed and Tommy Robinson will get a few more quid in his bank account but if you are relying on the far right and other reactionary elements to save your precious Brexit, you will be sadly disappointed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said: Don't talk such rubbish! Did you see how many people turned out for that UKIP/EDL/Leave means Leave/Brexit Betrayal march in December when it first started to look like there was a realistic chance that Brexit was not going to happen? Less than 5000 and more than three times that number turned up to oppose it. Less than a month before that over 700,000 people had attended a People's Vote march in London. Let's face it, sacking off Brexit will lead to a hugh sigh of relief in most parts and yes, a few windows will be smashed and Tommy Robinson will get a few more quid in his bank account but if you are relying on the far right and other reactionary elements to save your precious Brexit, you will be sadly disappointed! I'm afraid that you paint yourself very much as a lone wolf extremist with your views on ignoring the referendum result. The majority of our elected politicians don't want to Leave the EU, but daren't cancel Brexit as they think the consequences could be terrible. If it could have been cancelled, it would have been by now. Why do you know better? You seem to want the system to explode. Edited January 25, 2019 by Car Boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Car Boot said: I'm afraid that you paint yourself very much as a lone wolf extremist with your views on ignoring the referendum result. The majority of our elected politicians don't want to Leave the EU, but daren't cancel Brexit as they think the consequences could be terrible. If it could have been cancelled, it would have been by now. Why do you know better? You seem to want the system to explode. I disagree with you and your radical views. The people I have been talking to want a chance to vote on the various options with a sigle transferable vote referendum so that the Leaver don't feel that the combined weight of their support is diluted - but the DO want a chance to express their views now that they have greater clarity on what 'leave' actually could mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 40 minutes ago, Car Boot said: The majority of our elected politicians don't want to Leave the EU, but daren't cancel Brexit as they think the consequences could be terrible. If it could have been cancelled, it would have been by now. It is only for reasons of political cowardice that it hasn't been cancelled, not because they are worried about Tommy Robinson calling a march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said: Don't talk such rubbish! Did you see how many people turned out for that UKIP/EDL/Leave means Leave/Brexit Betrayal march in December when it first started to look like there was a realistic chance that Brexit was not going to happen? Less than 5000 and more than three times that number turned up to oppose it. Less than a month before that over 700,000 people had attended a People's Vote march in London. Let's face it, sacking off Brexit will lead to a hugh sigh of relief in most parts and yes, a few windows will be smashed and Tommy Robinson will get a few more quid in his bank account but if you are relying on the far right and other reactionary elements to save your precious Brexit, you will be sadly disappointed! Is that the number according to Diane Abacus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Gee Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, retep said: Is that the number according to Diane Abacus? Are you ANGELFIRE1 in disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, retep said: Is that the number according to Diane Abacus? Why, how does the reteputer represent the number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said: None of that is true whichever way you look at it. The Belfast Agreement makes provision for a border poll to be taken if it appears likely that there is now a majority in the North to leave the UK. If this is the case the the Irish Government needs to pass legislation for a constitutional amendment which is then put to the Irish people in a referendum. If the Irish people say yes, the North leaves the UK and Ireland is reunited. No you have still got it backwards. The above cant happen until N.Ireland have a government in place with an executive and assembly that can allow a border poll to be taken as its only when that happens that a border poll in N.Ireland can take place. At the moment NI has no sitting assembly as it was suspended in 2017 and until that is back in place nothing can be put forward as strand 2 relies on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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