I1L2T3 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, mafya said: Stop calling me a liar when I’m relaying what I have read! this is where it says they won’t negotiate = https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-michel-barnier-dominic-raab_uk_5b7c3c14e4b07295150d78c2 They said they have gone as far as they can given May’s red lines. That does not mean they are unwilling to negotiate if the red lines are softer softened Edited January 17, 2019 by I1L2T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron99 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, DnAuK said: Interesting reading from the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/semi-brexit-england-wales-leaving-eu-solution Quote - "A semi-Brexit, with just England and Wales leaving the EU, is the solution" I don't pretend to understand all of this, but it seems there is precedent for it. And I have seen signs of this being quoted before in the job I do. But if it was realistic, why has it not been mentioned before i wonder? As I posted earlier. Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Baron99 said: As I posted earlier. Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être. How does it lay it bare exactly??? They made a claim that a brexit vote could lead to the breakup of the Union and now news reports are circulating about Indyref 2??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Baron99 said: As I posted earlier. Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être. No they wouldn’t because there hasn’t been a fundamental change in circumstance if we remained. Therefore, there would not have been a good enough reason for Westminster to consider sanctioning a second independence referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RJRB said: Fair enough. So let’s go with a People’s Vote so that the whole population can compare the Leave or Remain options that are on the table. It is no good blaming Remainers for the deadlock. You won the vote,now you must unite around a viable option. If this is to be No Deal then it would be so contentious, that it must be compared with sticking with the status quo. I will go along with the many Brexit voters who say that they know exactly why they opted to leave. What is evident is that these are their own reasons and represent a whole host of disparate views. This is why there is no one capable of uniting this camp and progressing the cause. David Cameron made it perfectly that if the democratic UK people voted to leave the EU, then the UK would really leave the EU and there wouldn't be another referendum or further negotiations to keep the UK in the EU. The only people wanting another referendum are Remain voters who still don't respect the decision the majority made in 2016 and still want the UK to remain in the EU. I voted remain under the understanding if remain won the EU referendum vote then the UK would remain fully in the EU. However, I accept the EU referendum result and now support the UK fully leaving the EU with or without a deal. 2 hours ago, Baron99 said: According to to the 'i' newspaper today, the SNP are now working on a timetable for a 2nd Independence referendum in the wake of May's Brexit defeat. Good look to the on that one & I hope they get what they want. It'll also take a few million more Remainers out of the vote of any possible future EU referendum. If there is another EU referendum vote then the SNP are justified in asking for another Scottish Independence referendum. However, if the EU referendum result is honoured and the UK leave the EU without another EU referendum then the SNP have no justification for asking for another Scottish Independence referendum so soon after the last one. Edited January 17, 2019 by Lockdoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron99 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said: Let's be honest, until three or four years ago, many Leave voters neither knew nor cared what the EU was. There was no public clamour to leave and the issue only concerned the right of the Conservative Party and the far right. What UKIP cleverly did was blur the lines between EU and non-EU immigration and offered leaving the EU as a way to put an end to all immigration regardless of whether it was from Bulgaria or Bangladesh. At the same time they created a bureaucratic bogeyman that was imposing laws on us and 'telling us what to do.' Blue passports and bendy bananas were just devices to increase either anger or sentimentality. The only homogenous group of Leave supporters are those on the political extremes who have been wanting an exit for decades. What the rest want depends on what they think they were promised in the run up to the referendum. There are almost as many ideas about what Brexit should be as there were Brexit voters. Remain is pretty much one aspiration and differences of opinion are minor. Disagree about the `Three or four years ago' time period. Blair campaigned against it in his early days as a young MP., offering a referendum on EU membership in 2004; as did Brown a few years later, both only to renege on their promises. It seems to some wanting to remain on that the gripes with the EU only only bagan in the few years proceeding the 2016 referendum? Well they didn't did they? In reality the populace has been pressing for a vote for decades under both Lab & Con administrations but it wasn't until Cameron relented that we finally got one & the vast majority delivered their resounding decision - leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron99 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, geared said: How does it lay it bare exactly??? They made a claim that a brexit vote could lead to the breakup of the Union and now news reports are circulating about Indyref 2??? Well everything is still up in the air at the moment isn't it? The smart money, & that's why the £ has risen is on soft Norway style agreement or on a very distant, (listening to a constitutional law expert the other day on the radio, not a politician, talking about the length of time repealing laws, WITHOUT anyone trying to defend them, slow the process down or taking the debate out), 2nd referendum put the UK electorate, yet the SNP look as though they are going for it this year. As I said earlier, if they vote to leave the Union I'll respect that, that's democracy at work. It'll also mean a few million less votes in for any future Remain camp at a possible future EU referendum. Like UKIP only being around, to instigate a referendum on the EU, the SNP raison d'etre is ultimately Independence no matter what the wider UK / EU political environment. If the SNP manages to get independence in the next year, expect than to be a fading force by 2025 & the natural party of Scotland, Labour to take over again. It's funny. It's probably the English psyche that doesn't want us governed by a load of foreigners based in Brusels, a similar psyche seems to exist in Scotland towards the English? Edited January 17, 2019 by Baron99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: I voted remain under the understanding if remain won the EU referendum vote then the UK would remain fully in the EU. However, I accept the EU referendum result and now support the UK fully leaving the EU with or without a deal. Stop it with the lies, NOBODY believes you, your are more obsessed with the referendum result than most "leavers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, melthebell said: Stop it with the lies, NOBODY believes you, your are more obsessed with the referendum result than most "leavers" If, I am guilty of anything then I am guilty of respecting democracy. Respecting democracy is not a crime in my book. If you respect democracy then you support democratic decisions which you personally didn't vote for. You have embarrassed yourself by accusing me of telling lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: If, I am guilty of anything then I am guilty of respecting democracy. Respecting democracy is not a crime in my book. If you respect democracy then you support democratic decisions which you personally didn't vote for. You have embarrassed yourself by accusing me of telling lies. This is turning into comedy gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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