ez8004 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: If, I am guilty of anything then I am guilty of respecting democracy. Respecting democracy is not a crime in my book. If you respect democracy then you support democratic decisions which you personally didn't vote for. You have embarrassed yourself by accusing me of telling lies. Because asking the electorate in a democratic vote what they want is undemocratic? Also, you still do not fundamentally understand how our democracy works. It’s representative and NOT direct. So parliament decides what to do. If they think we should have a 2nd referendum then we should and it is not undemocractic in the least. Edited January 17, 2019 by ez8004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said: If there is another EU referendum vote then the SNP are justified in asking for another Scottish Independence referendum. However, if the EU referendum result is honoured and the UK leave the EU without another EU referendum then the SNP have no justification for asking for another Scottish Independence referendum so soon after the last one. You need to familiarise yourself a bit about the Scottish Indyref1 (or ask your GRU handler for a crib sheet), because you clearly are not familiar with the expression "significant and material change in circumstances" and its constitutional relevance to a Scottish Indyref given the context of Brexit: Brexit, ie honouring the 2016 referendum result, is exactly what justifies the SNP's call for an Indyref2. The timing of which relative to the first one, is completely and utterly irrelevant. That's democracy in action. 'Self-determination', actually. We on the Continent like the Scots and the Irish. Lots. For Scotland, I can easily see fast-tracking onto associate EU membership (EEA grade) in a matter of months, with full EU membership inside 2 years. Not so much for the Welsh, though. I doubt their economy is convergent enough now, never mind after some further Brexit-caused industrial desertification. Edited January 17, 2019 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hots on Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, L00b said: That's democracy too. 'Self-determination', actually. We on the Continent like the Scots and the Irish. Lots. I can easily see fast-tracking onto associate EU membership (EEA grade) in a matter of months, with full EU membership inside 2 years. Scotland would be swallowed up by the EU. What influence would it have within it?? Its curious how a country seeking independence seeks to join the EU, but then again since when did the SNP display joined up thinking? they think 16 year olds are mature enough to vote but not mature enough to choose to smoke or not, or even to use a sunbed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, L00b said: You need to familiarise yourself a bit about the Scottish Indyref1 (or ask your GRU handler for a crib sheet), because you clearly are not familiar with the expression "significant and material change in circumstances" and its constitutional relevance to a Scottish Indyref given the context of Brexit: Brexit, ie honouring the 2016 referendum result, is exactly what justifies the SNP's call for an Indyref2. The timing of which relative to the first one, is completely and utterly irrelevant. That's democracy in action. 'Self-determination', actually. We on the Continent like the Scots and the Irish. Lots. For Scotland, I can easily see fast-tracking onto associate EU membership (EEA grade) in a matter of months, with full EU membership inside 2 years. Not so much for the Welsh, though. I doubt their economy is convergent enough now, never mind after some further Brexit-caused industrial desertification. Rough translation: it's fine for the Scots to want independence from the UK, but not for Britain to want independence from the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 We have a No Deal trading arrangement with our single biggest trading partner, the United States. How is this possible? Surely we can't possibly survive outside of an EU trade deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said: I voted remain under the understanding if remain won the EU referendum vote then the UK would remain fully in the EU. However, I accept the EU referendum result and now support the UK fully leaving the EU with or without a deal. I have spoken to many Remain voters who, like you, respected the democratic result of the June 2016 referendum and now support the UK Leaving the EU. It's honourable, and refreshing, to see that the deliberate chaos inspired by a Remainer Prime Minister and her Remainer Chancellor (with their entrusted Remainer top civil servant) who together negotiated a fake Brexit haven't caused you to question the desirability of Leaving the EU. As has been their intent from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, Car Boot said: We have a No Deal trading arrangement with our single biggest trading partner, the United States. How is this possible? Surely we can't possibly survive outside of an EU trade deal? we trade with the US while IN the EU, surely thats not possible :O since trade was one of the main "lies" about brexit, and if you really think trump aint gonna screw us over when we go begging to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said: David Cameron made it perfectly that if the democratic UK people voted to leave the EU, then the UK would really leave the EU and there wouldn't be another referendum or further negotiations to keep the UK in the EU. I don't remember DC saying there wouldn't be another one. After all if parliament decides that that is the best way to decide what happens, we are in no position to stop them - after all, we democratically elected them to deliver what they think best on our behalf. To suggest otherwise would be being a traitor to democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said: If, I am guilty of anything then I am guilty of respecting democracy. Respecting democracy is not a crime in my book. If you respect democracy then you support democratic decisions which you personally didn't vote for. Well you say that, but if Parliament were to pass legislation abandoning Brexit altogether as a bad idea, you would be spitting feathers and screaming about not respecting the will of the 'democratic people'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Litotes said: I don't remember DC saying there wouldn't be another one. After all if parliament decides that that is the best way to decide what happens, we are in no position to stop them - after all, we democratically elected them to deliver what they think best on our behalf. To suggest otherwise would be being a traitor to democracy. Imposing another EU membership referendum on the UK public before the democratic outcome of the last one is implemented would invalidate the result of the June 2016 People's Vote immediately once it is announced. 17.4 million votes would in effect be stolen by a rich Remainer establishment. That would certainly be a traitor to democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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