The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

[WiseOwl182]

4 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

 

 

Also, so it's the foreigner's fault for being a far better job candidate in terms of qualifications with a better work ethic?  It's not the employer's responsibility to hire ONLY BRITISH.  If you're not good enough for whatever reason, you're not good enough.

British jobs for British workers as Gordon Brown once said.

 

 

4 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

 you would know that the £78,000 figure was extrapolated from the actual figure of £2,300 net contribution a year by an average EU migrant.

 

Aka. a guess.

Edited January 20, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[andyofborg]

40 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

 

He wants MPs to be given a vote on all Brexit options, indicating their preference on the way forward.

It's clear from Tuesday that Mrs May's deal is not the way forward. The consensus of media reports is that no deal is not a way forward either.  Something somewhere has to change.

 

Allowing MPs to express a preference on a number of alternative options might help guide the government into what sort of deal they should be aiming to negotiate.  It at least generates the impression they are doing something. 

 

40 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Mrs May should consider dropping her red lines "in the national interest" and become a facilitator to find out what Parliament wants, he said.

The deal is built around her red lines, it's unlikely that either the EU will offer enough changes or enough MPs will change their mind to make the deal pass a second vote. By changing her position a resolution might be possible. She probably doesn't need to change much to produce a much better deal.

 

40 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

What Parliament wants? Once again the previous vote & the majority wanting to leave appear to be being sidelined. 

 

 

the referendum gave no guidance on how we should disconnect from the EU or what our future trading relationship should be. 

 

Parliament will accept a sensible deal that protects the economy and we will leave. 

[Top Cats Hat]

11 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 it is because they are taking jobs that could've gone to UK citizens. 

I'm glad they have.

 

One of my best friends survived two very nasty cancers because of an amazing Hungarian surgeon in Newcastle. For the operations she had, this guy had the highest success rate of any surgeon in any health trust in the North of England.

 

For many years we have had equal opportunities legislation which means than in most cases the best applicant for the job is employed, regardless of race or country of origin.

[ANGELFIRE1]

3 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I don't need to imply anything.

 

There is a lot of recent evidence to show that immigration has a negligible effect on education or healthcare.

 

Again, all I'm hearing is xenophobic dog whistle slogans!

Where do the net 300,000 "incomers" live, where do their children go to school and where do they all get medical attention do you think. How do you arrive at a "negligible effect",   because as John McEnroe used to say "you cannot be serious".

 

Angel1.

[ez8004]

11 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

British jobs for British workers as Gordon Brown once said.

 

 

Aka. a guess.

British jobs for British workers.  Great slogan you're supporting there.  Since it happens to be used by the National Front before Gordon Brown.  So will calling you a fascist seem unreasonable?

 

I gave fact based evidence.  It wasn't a guess since you can't do maths, the £2,300 value is real, so simply multiplying it by say 33 years gives an appreciable number in terms of working life.  That is how the £78,000 number arises.  Why don't you counter with a study of reference?  My numbers came from Oxford Economics.

 

 

4 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Where do the net 300,000 "incomers" live, where do their children go to school and where do they all get medical attention do you think. How do you arrive at a "negligible effect",   because as John McEnroe used to say "you cannot be serious".

 

Angel1.

Because the extra contribution they give to our economy enables the government to spend more on public services than if they weren't here?  Oh wait..... that makes sense!

Edited January 20, 2019 by ez8004

[WiseOwl182]

6 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

 

I gave fact based evidence.  It wasn't a guess since you can't do maths, the £2,300 value is real, so simply multiplying it by say 33 years gives an appreciable number in terms of working life.  That is how the £78,000 number arises.  What don't you counter with a study of reference?  My numbers came from Oxford Economics.

 

 

Any projection is a guess, not a fact. Does the study also take into account the more recent Eastern European members? What was the sample size and methodology?

 

 

6 minutes ago, ez8004 said:

British jobs for British workers.  Great slogan you're supporting there.  Since it happens to be used by the National Front before Gordon Brown.  So will calling you a fascist seem unreasonable?

 

Would you call Gordon Brown a fascist?

Edited January 20, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[I1L2T3]

25 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I don't need to imply anything.

 

There is a lot of recent evidence to show that immigration has a negligible effect on education or healthcare.

 

Again, all I'm hearing is xenophobic dog whistle slogans!

I’m a remainer but I do take issue with the idea that excess immigration has no adverse impact on housing, services, infrastructure. There is an adverse impact. There has to be.

 

We have had excess immigration.

 

I remember when I was growing up the U.K. population stayed very stable at around 55m for a long time. We’re now on 65m

 

Yes there has been decent economic growth. Most of us have better lives and better opportunities. But infrastructure, housing and services have not kept pace

 

That isn’t the fault of the EU. It’s the fault of our own successive governments for not creating a sustainable model.

 

Weve been led by Tories for 30 of our 45 years in the EU. Asking the Tories to give us sustainable growth is bonkers. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by I1L2T3

[Longcol]

33 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 If EU migrants are making a net contribution, it is because they are taking jobs that could've gone to UK citizens.

When the number of people employed in the UK is at its highest ever level and unemployment is at its lowest rate since the early 70's, which UK citizens are being done out of a job?

 

Are UK citizens in pockets of high employment - like Belfast and Middlesbrough really going to move to the SE of England for jobs?

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Longcol

[WiseOwl182]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

When the number of people employed in the UK is at its highest ever level and unemployment is at its lowest rate since the early 70's, which UK citizens are being done out of a job?

 

 

Employment stats can hide things but even accepting that, there's still hundreds of thousands out of work. We're often told how we need immigration for the NHS. Why can't we do more to train up UK citizens as the doctors and nurses we need? Importing labour should be a last resort, not a default.

 

Given that we are enjoying such high employment levels under a Conservative government, I trust you won't be risking it by voting for Labour?

[Top Cats Hat]

10 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

How do you arrive at a "negligible effect",   because as John McEnroe used to say "you cannot be serious".

I didn't. A recently released long term study did.

 

That is the problem with dog whistle slogans, populism and living in a bubble. When a credible study shows something which contradicts the nonsense you see endlessly repeated on facebook, in the Daily Mail and on UKIP posters you don't say ' that is interesting I must rethink my position!' you say 'you can't be serious.'

 

The reason that there is a shortage of social housing, health and education provision is not because of those bad immigrants it is because we live in a society which puts the interests of the rich and powerful above those of the rest of society.

 

Give your head a wobble and stop the lazy thinking.