Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[retep]

2 minutes ago, altus said:

How many of those countries have international flights without conforming to international agreements?

Who says the UK doesn't.

[L00b]

1 hour ago, retep said:

Does China only have internal flights or America or countless other countries?

China and America are staying signed up to the international treaties under which their airlines travel in and out of other countries' airspaces and airports.

 

The UK is signed up to these same international treaties through its EU membership (via its EASA membership, and EASA having bilateral agreements with its Chinese and US counterparts, such agreements developed and evolved over decades).

 

When the UK exits the EU, it ceases to be an EASA member as well, and so ceases to be signed up to these international treaties.

 

That is the simplified, lay version of the civil aviation issue. There are identical issues in hundreds more ways of regulatory life. I've posted plenty about the intellectual property and rights of audience issue, for example.

 

This is one of the core points of cognitive failure of the Leave supporters, at all levels and right up to government: Brexit is a legal process first and foremost, that boils down to exiting a jurisdiction, and therefore all of the effects associated with and under that jurisdiction. The simple analogy is still that, when you cease to be a club member, you cease to enjoy the club benefits, including all the club's affiliations.

 

If you want to keep some of these benefits, including some of affiliations (EASA, EURATOM, etc), then you need to pay for the privilege, and accept the club rules and procedures (Directives, standads, CJEU arbitration etc) insofar as they relate to these retained benefits and affiliations.

 

If you don't, develop your own, and learn to live without while you do that.

 

But if you want to keep some of these benefits and affiliations without accepting the club rules and procedures (which is the story of 'cake and eat it' Brexit as sold to the UK public to this day), then I'm afraid you can go whistle, to use your PM's own words.

 

That is how and why the WA deal is unchanged to this day, how and why the EU isn't going to take out the backstop, and how and why EU leaders are having a good old poke at Johnson (can't wait for the Johnson-Macron meet tomorrow, Macron's government has already called him out loud and clear on his no deal bluff today ).

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by L00b

[melthebell]

2 minutes ago, L00b said:

China and America are staying signed up to the international treaties under which their airlines travel in and out of other countries' airspaces and airports.

 

The UK is signed up to these same international treaties through its EU membership (via its EASA membership, and EASA having bilateral agreements with its Chinese and US counterparts, such agreements developed and evolved over decades).

 

When the UK exits the EU, it ceases to be an EASA member as well, and so ceases to be signed up to these international treaties.

 

That is the simplified, lay version of the civil aviation issue. There are identical issues in hundreds more ways of regulatory life. I've posted plenty about the intellectual property and rights of audience issue, for example.

 

This is one of the core points of cognitive failure of the Leave supporters, at all levels and right up to government: Brexit is a legal process first and foremost, that boils down to exiting a jurisdiction, and therefore all of the effects associated with and under that jurisdiction. The simple analogy is still that, when you cease to be a club member, you cease to enjoy the club benefits, including all the club's affiliations.

 

If you want to keep some of these benefits, including some of affiliations (EASA, EURATOM, etc), then you need to pay for the privilege, and accept the club rules and procedures (Directives, standads, CJEU arbitration etc) insofar as they relate to these retained benefits and affiliations.

 

If you don't, develop your own, and learn to live without while you do that.

 

 

cue more stupidity and nonsense when he comes back with but america and china arent part of the EU and their club

[Magilla]

Health leaders issue new no-deal warning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49420841

The heads of 17 royal colleges and health charities across the UK say clinicians are "unable to reassure patients" their health and care will not be affected. They go on to say they have "significant concerns about shortages of medical supplies".

 

Experts... obviously

 

[Pettytom]

32 minutes ago, retep said:

Who says the UK doesn't.

It does, for now.

 

It soon won’t. 

 

Heathrow to Manchester anyone?

[Top Cats Hat]

26 minutes ago, retep said:

Who says the UK doesn't.

Think of international air travel as a football league.

 

To play in that league you need to be part of the English Football League which not only organises competitions and sets fixtures but oversees things like the building of grounds and crowd safety.

 

Now you may have a cracking wee non-league team called peter United, that is solvent, has a new, safe ground, a good team and great supporters but that team will only be allowed to play in the league if it signs up for, and is accepted by the football league.

 

Now UK aviation is undoubtedly among the best in the world but once the UK leaves the EU it has no international authority to operate either at home or internationally. Think of it as Manchester City who one day decide that they no longer want to be part of the league. They will still be the best team in England but will not be able to play a single league fixture anywhere.

[Lockdoctor]

13 hours ago, Magilla said:

Merkel puts blame for no-deal firmly back in Johnsons lap:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/21/merkel-gives-johnson-30-days-to-find-solution-to-avoid-no-deal-brexit

Angela Merkel has challenged Boris Johnson to come up with a solution to avert a no-deal Brexit “in the next 30 days”.

Both leaders agreed the onus was on the UK to come up with a way to square Britain’s desire to leave the EU with the need to avert a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, as set out in the Good Friday agreement.

We hear about the EU27 and have been told the Withdrawal Agreement won't be reopened and the Backstop has to stay. Yesterday Angela Merkel demonstrated which EU member has the keys for the EU prison. The British people fought in two World Wars to prevent Germany from taking over Europe and it is shameful that British people who don't respect democracy want to keep what was once a proud nation in the EU prison controlled by Germany.

[Top Cats Hat]

3 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

British people who don't respect democracy want to keep what was once a proud nation in the EU prison controlled by Germany.

Would these be the British people planning to suspend Parliament to get their bonkers plans through unopposed? Not much respect for democracy there.

 

And you do know that Germany didn’t vote to leave the EU. They have already spent three years working on a withdrawal agreement and are under no obligation to waste any more time on it.

 

 I think you will find Macron will give Johnson the same answer!

[L00b]

16 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

We hear about the EU27 and have been told the Withdrawal Agreement won't be reopened and the Backstop has to stay. Yesterday Angela Merkel demonstrated which EU member has the keys for the EU prison. The British people fought in two World Wars to prevent Germany from taking over Europe and it is shameful that British people who don't respect democracy want to keep what was once a proud nation in the EU prison controlled by Germany.

Yesterday Angela Merkel reminded your Prime Minister that the EU27 negotiate as one via the appointed EU negotiator, Michel Barnier.

 

I know you don't do details much, and that you're a bit hard of understanding about procedures and due process, so let's keep it simple: stop lying, Lockdoctor.

[Lockdoctor]

3 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Would these be the British people planning to suspend Parliament to get their bonkers plans through unopposed? Not much respect for democracy there.

 

And you do know that Germany didn’t vote to leave the EU. They have already spent three years working on a withdrawal agreement and are under no obligation to waste any more time on it.

 

 I think you will find Macron will give Johnson the same answer!

I support Parliament being suspended.  While ever the EU led by Germany think there is a possibility that Parliament can block a no-deal exit then  there is no reason for the EU to discuss a managed UK exit until the last minute. Start being honest because  taking a no-deal of the table is the same as the UK remaining in the EU which is against the democratic wishes of the majority who voted in the 2016 EU referendum.