Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Lockdoctor]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Then he should have one now, get his deal (ha!) Or no deal through parliament, knowing he has a genuine mandate to do so and not feel the need to create a quasi-dictatorship and circumnavigate parliamentary democracy on the most important matter this country has faced since world war 2. 

 

Why should he call a General Election if he can implement the democratic EU referendum result without one?  He already has a genuine mandate which was given to whoever is Prime Minister when Parliament voted  overwhelmingly in favour of triggering Article 50 making leaving the EU without a deal the default legal position.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Longcol said:

What - you mean sending David Davis to bluster away when he could be bothered turning up at meetings wasn't a plan?

David Davis had no power because Oliver Robbins and Theresa May were in charge of Brexit negotiations.  Both of them have now been replaced.

[Top Cats Hat]

27 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

But there could be no negotiations until Article 50 was triggered. 

You are missing the point.

 

The strength of the UK economy for decades has been tied up with the EU, and trade with the rest of the world through the EU. As soon as we announced our intention to break that link, we became very much on the back foot economically, best evidenced by the fall in Sterling.

 

The EU are well aware that we need them much more than they need us and that has been the basis of all negotiations since day one. However good you think your hand of cards is, if you throw half of them under the table you can only ever win by hoping that the other player stacks. If the other player already knows that you have thrown away half your cards, they will never stack. Keeping no deal on the table is the equivalent of putting a gun to your own head and saying that you will pull the trigger if you don’t win the next hand. Yes the other players will be spattered with blood.

 

But you will be dead! 😵

[Robin-H]

1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You are missing the point.

 

The strength of the UK economy for decades has been tied up with the EU, and trade with the rest of the world through the EU. As soon as we announced our intention to break that link, we became very much on the back foot economically, best evidenced by the fall in Sterling.

 

The EU are well aware that we need them much more than they need us and that has been the basis of all negotiations since day one. However good you think your hand of cards is, if you throw half of them under the table you can only ever win by hoping that the other player stacks. If the other player already knows that you have thrown away half your cards, they will never stack. Keeping no deal on the table is the equivalent of putting a gun to your own head and saying that you will pull the trigger if you don’t win the next hand. Yes the other players will be spattered with blood.

 

But you will be dead! 😵

Am I missing the point? When would you have triggered article 50? 

[Top Cats Hat]

2 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Am I missing the point? When would you have triggered article 50? 

I wouldn’t have! 

 

[Robin-H]

5 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I wouldn’t have! 

 

Well exactly. 

 

You can’t criticise the timing of triggering article 50 when your solution would be to not trigger it all - that has nothing to do with the timing 

 

 

[tinfoilhat]

47 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

We did. It was to negotiate a deal with the EU. It’s what Mrs May spent a long time doing. 

 

The fact that parliament can’t agree now makes it incredible unlikely they would have agreed a plan when they had no idea what the EU was going to offer. 

Negotiate  deal with the EU? No **** Sherlock. But the various leave groups still dont have a vaguely unified position. That would have been a start. That should have been the start.

48 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

Why should he call a General Election if he can implement the democratic EU referendum result without one?  He already has a genuine mandate which was given to whoever is Prime Minister when Parliament voted  overwhelmingly in favour of triggering Article 50 making leaving the EU without a deal the default legal position.

 

 

David Davis had no power because Oliver Robbins and Theresa May were in charge of Brexit negotiations.  Both of them have now been replaced.

Because to leave the EU he must crush parliamentary democracy, something we've had and cherished for ever. That trumps the referendum I'm afraid.

 

And now your lies. Davis was in charge. The fact he passed the buck when he got fired for doing his job badly does not absolve him from blame.

[Top Cats Hat]

4 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

You can’t criticise the timing of triggering article 50 when your solution would be to not trigger it all - that has nothing to do with the timing 

 

 

I’m not criticising the timing of it, I am criticising the fact that it was triggered at all.

[Robin-H]

Just now, tinfoilhat said:

Negotiate  deal with the EU? No **** Sherlock. But the various leave groups still dont have a vaguely unified position. That would have been a start. That should have been the start.

You’re living in fantasy land if you believe the various leave groups could agree on a unified position before knowing anything about the EU’s position. They can’t agree one now. No way would they have agreed one before 

[tinfoilhat]

2 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

You’re living in fantasy land if you believe the various leave groups could agree on a unified position before knowing anything about the EU’s position. They can’t agree one now. No way would they have agreed one before 

They would have known what threat the leave side wanted though surely? I'm pretty sure most could have roughly guessed what the EU wanted (with exception of the Irish border, nobody in the UK thought of that) - we were part of it.

 

So, based on a campaign based on lies, we've got s bunch of people trying to push us off an economic cliff and three years still can't work out how to do it.

[Robin-H]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I’m not criticising the timing of it, I am criticising the fact that it was triggered at all.

I’m sure you have previously criticised the timing, saying it was triggered too early. If not I apologise, but a lot of people have made that argument, and I don’t see the logic.