Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Longcol]

57 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

What is the Backstop in relation the Brexit situation? I am not really following too closely at the moment.

Boris and the Brexiteers are prepared to throw  the Good Friday Agreement (effectively a peace treaty) under the bus to achieve a no deal Brexit. If it all kicked off in NI again they would blame everybody but themselves.

[Ontarian1981]

56 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

This explains it well. 

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/irish-backstop/

Thanks, what a head scratcher, what a mess.. Who votes these for these stupid political leaders?

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

OK the backstop in one paragraph.

 

A border exists between the North and South of Ireland which MUST allow freedom of movement of goods and people under the 1998 Belfast Agreement. If the UK leaves the EU then this border becomes an EU/non-EU border. To get around this, the backstop is an amendment to the withdrawal agreement which keeps the North of Ireland in a customs union with the EU so that there are no tariff differences across that border and it can be kept open.

 

Does that make sense?

It's way over my head, what a mess these guys have created. This bull**** is asking for a return of the troubles to Ireland, unbelievable.

[tzijlstra]

3 hours ago, hobinfoot said:

I agree no one mentioned a backstop during the build up to the referendum that I remember.

But the Good Friday agreement and the issues with the border in Ireland were mentioned repeatedly, and ignored as not appropriate by Brexiteers. Just one of many points that were ignored, all of which are coming back to haunt Johnson.

[Ontarian1981]

40 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Boris and the Brexiteers are prepared to throw  the Good Friday Agreement (effectively a peace treaty) under the bus to achieve a no deal Brexit. If it all kicked off in NI again they would blame everybody but themselves.

Yeah, I just answeed the other guys above.I can see no good coming from all this, I really can't.

[Top Cats Hat]

4 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

 

This bull**** is asking for a return of the troubles to Ireland, unbelievable.

I was in Ireland last week and saw a very informed programme on RTE about the situation in the North. Not only have dissident Republican paramilitaries been recruiting at record levels but Loyalist paramilitaries have also been re-arming in anticipation of the very real prospect of a united Ireland.

 

As the ‘IRA’s political aims have never been closer to being achieved and the Loyalists’ fears have never been more real, there is potential for a bloodbath of similar proportions to the early 70s. The most chilling interview was with an ex-Provisional IRA volunteer who said that significant numbers of his old comrades are considering a return to the ‘armed struggle’. Current dissident Republicans are a bit of a clown car of disparate nationalist elements but the ‘old Provos’ have the discipline, political acumen, ruthlessness and military skills to carry out a prolonged war until Britain walks away from Ireland for good.

 

And yes, you are right. Militant Republicanism was dying on its arse until Brexit came along. 

[Dardandec]

19 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

Yeah, I just answeed the other guys above.I can see no good coming from all this, I really can't.

Not what you said - HERE

 

"Broken the country " lol. How can any democratic government on earth ever allow that to happen because of a referendum?

Put the sandwich board away and think of solutions to the "problems" ahead instead of ridiculing everyone who thinks that leaving is a good thing.

I am assuming you believe in a democratic society, therefore respect the majority decision and then do something to help turn it in your favour instead of accepting it and being a doomsayer.

Some of you guys seem to thrive on gloomy outlooks rather than thinking of ways to work within the framework of a democratic vote.

Just remember the three stages of a preconceived gloomy outlook i.e.Denial..Anger..Acceptance..

Most of you are in the Anger mode at the moment. However Acceptance will arrive on Halloween...Deal with it.

[Ontarian1981]

16 minutes ago, Dardandec said:

Not what you said - HERE

 

"Broken the country " lol. How can any democratic government on earth ever allow that to happen because of a referendum?

Put the sandwich board away and think of solutions to the "problems" ahead instead of ridiculing everyone who thinks that leaving is a good thing.

I am assuming you believe in a democratic society, therefore respect the majority decision and then do something to help turn it in your favour instead of accepting it and being a doomsayer.

Some of you guys seem to thrive on gloomy outlooks rather than thinking of ways to work within the framework of a democratic vote.

Just remember the three stages of a preconceived gloomy outlook i.e.Denial..Anger..Acceptance..

Most of you are in the Anger mode at the moment. However Acceptance will arrive on Halloween...Deal with it.

Then I was talking about the fearmongering,  on here ,about Brexit, I had no idea this Boris guy was about to screw with the Irish accord to get his way. Why is this even necessary. Canada and the US share an undefended border, why should Ulster and Ireland be any different. Just because NI is still part of Britain doesn't mean it can't have it's own trade deals as a special case. It is a unique situation and should be recognised as such by the powers that be in Brussels, whether a deal or no deal exit.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Ontarian1981

[Dromedary]

Just for some balance:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46988529

 

It seem the border is only mentioned once in the GFA and that bit was about security so its not surprising it never formed part of any Brexiteers discussions. The EU only want the backstop as a way of keeping the whole of the UK closely tied in with the EU customs union and the single market and as a way of still claiming UK VAT, which forms around 10% of the EU budget. The backstop does not only avoid a hard border but adds the above. Now ask yourselves why parliament was against the backstop!

[Robin-H]

2 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Just for some balance:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46988529

 

It seem the border is only mentioned once in the GFA and that bit was about security so its not surprising it never formed part of any Brexiteers discussions. The EU only want the backstop as a way of keeping the whole of the UK closely tied in with the EU customs union and the single market and as a way of still claiming UK VAT, which forms around 10% of the EU budget. The backstop does not only avoid a hard border but adds the above. Now ask yourselves why parliament was against the backstop!

UK VAT forms 10% of the EU budget..?

[Top Cats Hat]

6 minutes ago, Ontarian1981 said:

Canada and the US share an undefended border, 

Really?

 

I have crossed the US-Canadian border many times and have never done it in less than an hour and on the I5 between Seattle and Vancouver have sometimes taken up to five hours (and this is with current, valid US and Canadian work visas.)

5 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

The EU only want the backstop as a way of keeping the whole of the UK closely tied in with the EU customs union and the single market and as a way of still claiming UK VAT, 

To be fair, that is just nothing but bonkers anti-EU paranoia. The EU (and the UK) have a legal obligation to uphold the Belfast Agreement. Maybe you could explain how else the border can remain free and open with two different customs regimes either side of it without a backstop?