Climate change protests

[ECCOnoob]

14 minutes ago, ads36 said:

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this isn't a matter of opinion, it's not just provably wrong,  it's a dangerous lie.

 

the bbc invite these people on, let them say their lies, and don't challenge them with the evidence.

 

(I've underlined the shameful bit. by all means talk with science deniers, but confront them with the evidence.)

Nonsense.   I have seen multiple debates broadcast between two people with polar opposite views.   I have heard and seen phone ins with both experts and general members of the public where the host has deliberately put both parties on the same line and let them spend time countering each others points.

 

It looks to me, that you are trying to push that every word spoken by a Climate Change hysteric is all true and cannot possibly be countered by another other point of view.     NEWSFLASH, climate change protestors have been known to exagerate and provide mistruths too.   

 

I think the adult population are capable of forming their own view on all sides presented in front of them. 

 

[ads36]

we're talking about science, opinions are worthless.

 

if the bbc want to pretend that there's a 'debate' around climate change, present evidence, not opinions (lies).

 

they can of course do what they want, but if they're going to spread lies, they can expect people to complain.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ads36

[carosio]

What are practical alternatives for plastic, something we could use when (and if) the oil industry is no more?

[ECCOnoob]

24 minutes ago, ads36 said:

we've got to go 4 lines down your list before we get to 'action' rather than platitudes.

 

and then it's something about carrier bags.

 

and then some more platitudes.

 

nothing that comes close to the level of change that's needed.

I seem to recall that "something about carriers bags" as you dismiss it was protested as a crisis that was going to kill the world.   You lot were there for years campaigning.........., banging on and on about how shameful, a disaster waiting to hapen, the horror that bag use numbers were rising, the shock stories of the the 1000+ years it takes for them to decompose and collosal damage to the environment us selfish bag users were doing...     

 

So, steps were taken.   Organisations changed.  Public attitude changes.  Number of bags used dropped significantly and you casually brush it  off as platitude.

 

You, see this is the problem with you protestors.    All mouth but no actually clue as to how the real world works.

 

YOU CANNOT JUST CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT. 

 

Protestors might demand say, 100% electric vehicles by tomorrow but people with a brain know that is an impossibility.   The techonology, costs and infrastructure is not there yet to make it viable.     There is no magic wand that gets waved here that just makes it happen.

 

Same goes for the demands screamed about power generation, transportation, agriculture, manufacturing.     Change has to be planned.  Systems have to be developed.   Money has to be raised. 

 

Honestly, the way some of you lot talk its like a child.    I want, I want, I want it now.   Doesn't work like that.   Mummy and Daddy have to deal with the reality.     No wonder you struggle with wide public support.   There is no substance.  No acutal PRACTICAL and REALISTIC proposals. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, ads36 said:

we're talking about science, opinions are worthless.

 

if the bbc want to pretend that there's a 'debate' around climate change, present evidence, not opinions (lies).

What the hell do you think science is.     Theories and Conclusions are tested all the time.    Research and opinion is all a big part of that.

 

The BBC do present evidence.   Both sides of it.    Just because you dont accept the opposing side doesn't make their "evidence" any less worth of acceptance and/or challenge over your own.

 

One could say that Fox news presents "evidence" but I think most of us are smart to know how such would be weighted. 

 

You see, that's the good thing about the BBC.   They present both sides.   They give you the range of opinion. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[ads36]

15 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

You, see this is the problem with you protestors.    All mouth but no actually clue as to how the real world works.

 

YOU CANNOT JUST CHANGE THINGS OVERNIGHT. 

yes we can.

 

tomorrow : no more fracking

 

tomorrow : announce (finally) the go ahead for modular reactors

 

tomorrow : tax aviation fuel

 

tomorrow : remove the ban on onshore wind-farms.

 

there's loads of stuff that will make a difference, that can be implemented almost immediately. There was a windfarm planned for a site in the Wolds, near my parents house. it got shelved when the effective ban on new windfarms came in. The plans are still valid, the land is still there, the wind still blows, the economics of wind-energy are better than ever. It's not a particularly pretty part of the world, hardly anyone lives or goes there, it's an ideal site for a windfarm. But the conservatives won't allow it. it's a shovel ready, self-funding plan.

 

I'm nothing to do with Extinction Rebellion, as I've stated on this thread, I think they're targeting the wrong people. I disagree with their methods. I can't however, disagree with their evidence-based message.

 

what's really exciting is that a lot of what needs to be done is building things, spending money, creating jobs, becoming leaders in new industries. all good economic stuff.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ads36

[ads36]

9 minutes ago, carosio said:

What are practical alternatives for plastic, something we could use when (and if) the oil industry is no more?

1) there's hundreds of years of oil left, we're going to be using oil-derived plastic for a long time.

2) depends on the application. there's a lot of natural oils and resins - that can be processed into 'plastics' - you've probably seen 'plastic' plates and (coffee) cups made from bamboo...

 

[Top Cats Hat]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

If these morons carry on much longer with their disruption to ordinary people going about their business - it will be the general public who will start doing something back.  A good quick fist to face.

Oh dear, they really have got you rattled, haven’t they!

 

The problem with right-wing old dinosaurs like you, is that you got all excited and thought that things like Trump’s election and Brexit would wind the clock back. It has in the short term but in the long term you and your ideas will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

Extinction Rebellion is here to stay until it is no longer needed! 😄👍

[ECCOnoob]

22 minutes ago, ads36 said:

yes we can.

 

tomorrow : no more fracking

 

tomorrow : announce (finally) the go ahead for modular reactors

 

tomorrow : tax aviation fuel

 

tomorrow : remove the ban on onshore wind-farms.

 

there's loads of stuff that will make a difference, that can be implemented almost immediately.

 

I'm nothing to do with Extinction Rebellion, as I've stated on this thread, I think they're targeting the wrong people. I disagree with their methods. I can't however, disagree with their evidence-based message.

 

what's really exciting is that a lot of what needs to be done is building things, spending money, creating jobs, becoming leaders in new industries. all good economic stuff.

Great - no more fracking.  Stop that tomorrow.     Our ever consuming energy requirements are fulfilled with what system (that is all fully estalibshed, cost effective and ready to go immediately)

 

Yes - lets go nuclear -  im sure that will be accepted without question instantly.   You know how popular nuclear is with the wider society.

 

Aviation already has an environmental tax applied - why should there be double recovery.  

 

There is a dispute going on about the effecitvness of wind power - why should the ban be removed until we know it actually works

 

..... see not just that easy.   

 

Yes we can and are doing lots of exciting things.   I am certainly not denying that.    However, I keep saying - it doesnt happen overnight.  

That money, those jobs, those buildings take time.    There has to be planning, organisation, recruitment, finances, legal affairs all put into place. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Oh dear, they really have got you rattled, haven’t they!

 

The problem with right-wing old dinosaurs like you, is that you got all excited and thought that things like Trump’s election and Brexit would wind the clock back. It has in the short term but in the long term you and your ideas will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

Extinction Rebellion is here to stay until it is no longer needed! 😄👍

What the hell are you talking about.

I am certainly not a right wing dinosaur as you put it.   Jesus, I am complete opposite in my political alliance. 

 

But, what I dont like is pointless gestures and deliberate disruption to ordinary people with little purpose.   I have pointed out on several occasions now how this "protest" has gone from legitimate raising awarness to civil disobedience.     That is unacceptable.  The disruption is supposed to at the government and organisations.  

 

Blocking road, bringing public transport to a standsill, causing criminal damage is not legitimate protest no matter how many times you justify it. 

 

ER itself can stay around as long as it is behaving appropriately (which it isnt) and has a legitimate purpose (which on current form it hasnt).

Protest groups need public support to keep going.      Get them against you and you will be finished. 

 

That is reality.   Something which ER certainly has lost a grip on recently.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[ads36]

4 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Great - no more fracking.  Stop that tomorrow.     Our ever consuming energy requirements are fulfilled with what system (that is all fully estalibshed, cost effective and ready to go immediately)

gas is a stop-gap. allowing us to quickly phase out coal. we've already done that. now we need to start the transition to renewables and nuclear. in the mean time, we can buy gas. we mustn't extract any more of it.

 

6 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes - lets go nuclear -  im sure that will be accepted without question instantly.   You know how popular nuclear is with the wider society.

we're already 'doing' nuclear, we're just doing it badly. modular reactors are ready to go, and cheap (because of mass production economics)

 

8 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Aviation already has an environmental tax applied - why should there be double recovery.  

it's tiny, token effort. when you can still get a flight for £20 it's nowhere near enough to change behaviour.

 

10 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

There is a dispute going on about the effectiveness of wind power - why should the ban be removed until we know it actually works

i'm going to use a word that upset you earlier : evidence?

[Delayed]

33 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

What the hell are you talking about.

I am certainly not a right wing dinosaur as you put it.   Jesus, I am complete opposite in my political alliance.

Nevermind him..if you have a different opinion to him that means you are a right wing, brexiteer, trump lover blah, blah.  There's no middle ground just left or right