LGBT issues and morality

[Halibut]

18 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

 

 

If you truly believed wholeheartedly, that something at your child's school was increasing their chance of going to hell, what would you do?

Home educate them, or find another school.

[Robin-H]

26 minutes ago, JamesR123 said:

I agree that in this case the people don't know what they are talking about (probably).

 

However I would say that normalisation as a child can lead to increased displays of an action/life styles.  Young child who grow up in a home where violence is normalised are more likely to be violent.

 

There is a link between homosexual relationships and homosexual intercourse.  Did you know that if you are a male and in a homosexual relationship, you are more likely to have, or have had, homosexual sex than other people?

I agree that I don't consider them evidence, but some people do.  The way around this is education.

 

However, answer this;

 

If you truly believed wholeheartedly, that something at your child's school was increasing their chance of going to hell, what would you do?

Same response to Halibut - I'd home educate or find another school. I'm aware neither of these solves the problem (indeed I can see that if a large number of parents with these opinions decided to homeschool their children it could make the problem worse), but you cannot bow to a small minority of people's bigoted and intolerant beliefs. 

 

It would also mean that I held beliefs that were clearly wrong. Shouldn't wrong beliefs be challenged whenever possible? 

[JamesR123]

33 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Home educate them, or find another school.

That's a really good answer and something that I would probably do.  However, in the first instance I would complain to the school I think.

 

Not everyone has the capacity to do this, especially if a large number of parents feel that same.  Not everyone is capable of home schooling their kids and surrounding schools will have limited (if any) places.

22 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Same response to Halibut - I'd home educate or find another school. I'm aware neither of these solves the problem (indeed I can see that if a large number of parents with these opinions decided to homeschool their children it could make the problem worse), but you cannot bow to a small minority of people's bigoted and intolerant beliefs. 

 

It would also mean that I held beliefs that were clearly wrong. Shouldn't wrong beliefs be challenged whenever possible? 

What if the group of people complaining aren't a small minority?  

 

It doesn't mean that your beliefs are clearly wrong. Being in the minority doesn't mean you are wrong.

 

I wholeheartedly believe that we should challenge wrong beliefs. However, right and wrong are subjective.  Challenging "wrong" beliefs is exactly what the parents are doing.

[Cyclone]

Are you trying to justify people attempting to stop schools teaching ABOUT the way that people might live?

 

And the justification your using is that simply learning ABOUT it, might in their warped reality have implications for a make believe after life?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Cyclone

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, JamesR123 said:

I agree that in this case the people don't know what they are talking about (probably).

 

However I would say that normalisation as a child can lead to increased displays of an action/life styles.  Young child who grow up in a home where violence is normalised are more likely to be violent.

 

There is a link between homosexual relationships and homosexual intercourse.  Did you know that if you are a male and in a homosexual relationship, you are more likely to have, or have had, homosexual sex than other people?

I agree that I don't consider them evidence, but some people do.  The way around this is education.

 

However, answer this;

 

If you truly believed wholeheartedly, that something at your child's school was increasing their chance of going to hell, what would you do?

But you're not crediting the parents who have religious beliefs as having any intelligence, capacity to realise that there are lots of other behaviours that they indulge in that will increase their chances of going to hell; nor are you acknowledging reports that many parents who are 'protesting' are being leant on by ideologues with extremist positions. 

[JamesR123]

3 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Are you trying to justify people attempting to stop schools teaching ABOUT the way that people might live?

 

And the justification your using is that simply learning ABOUT it, might in their warped reality have implications for a make believe after life?

Absolutely not.  I am, let's stay as polite as possible, not the biggest fan of Islam (or indeed Christianity).  I strongly feel that every effort needs to be made to stamp out the influence of Abrahamism in this country.

 

I am able however to understand the actions of these people, because I try to see it from their point of view.

Just now, Mister M said:

But you're not crediting the parents who have religious beliefs as having any intelligence, capacity to realise that there are lots of other behaviours that they indulge in that will increase their chances of going to hell; nor are you acknowledging reports that many parents who are 'protesting' are being leant on by ideologues with extremist positions. 

I wouldn't want to comment in the levels of intelligence of people to believe in an Abthamic religion (as opposed to those who just culturally identify with one).

 

Perhaps they do realise there are other behaviours they engage in that are likely to send them (or their children) to hell, but as we have no information on this, let's leave it out of the discussion as it is mete speculation.

 

These reports are unknown to me.  However, the Abrahamic position on male on male sex is clear.

 

It is a shame that in 2019 people still believe this sort of stuff, but we know they do.  Islam promotes some truly beautiful ideas, Muslims are more charitable and more likely to care for their elderly.  These are wonderful things that us non-Muslims should learn from.  However, it also promotes homophobia, and the idea that men who have sex with men will go to hell.

 

These people have been brought up to believe that homosexuality is a sin, an appalling action.  In my opinion they are utterly wrong, an opinion I am pretty sure you all share.

 

Imagine if the school you sent your children to was teaching your children that dealing drugs (for example) was normal.  Now I do not male equivalence between the two, as I do not believe homosexuality to be evil.  However, these people do.

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, JamesR123 said:

I agree that in this case the people don't know what they are talking about (probably).

 

However I would say that normalisation as a child can lead to increased displays of an action/life styles.  Young child who grow up in a home where violence is normalised are more likely to be violent.

 

There is a link between homosexual relationships and homosexual intercourse.  Did you know that if you are a male and in a homosexual relationship, you are more likely to have, or have had, homosexual sex than other people?

I agree that I don't consider them evidence, but some people do.  The way around this is education.

 

However, answer this;

 

If you truly believed wholeheartedly, that something at your child's school was increasing their chance of going to hell, what would you do?

Of course - but gay sex isn't what's being taught in primary schools. The only people who mention it, are those who want to mislead people that gay sex is being taught to children. 

Also worth pointing out that AFAIK, children raised in gay households are no more likely to be gay than those raised in straight ones

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Mister M

[Cyclone]

The fact is that children are taught ABOUT drugs.  (And in fact dealing them can be legal, Tescos do it, so do Boots).

 

Knowledge is power, and what these religions seek to do is to stop their followers from gaining both.  It shouldn't be allowed or pandered to.

Their children aren't being taught to be homosexual, they are simply being taught about how the world is.  You might as well argue that they shouldn't be taught about evolution.

[JamesR123]

No gay sex isn't being taught to children.  But something that normalised gay sex is.

 

I have been involved in running (in varying capacities) both Sheffield and Manchester Pride.  The homophobia inherent in Abrahamism is one if the key reasons I am against it.  So please don't think I am agreeing with the parents.

 

I am just aware of the position they are in, and can understand their actions.

Just now, Cyclone said:

The fact is that children are taught ABOUT drugs.  (And in fact dealing them can be legal, Tescos do it, so do Boots).

 

Knowledge is power, and what these religions seek to do is to stop their followers from gaining both.  It shouldn't be allowed or pandered to.

Their children aren't being taught to be homosexual, they are simply being taught about how the world is.  You might as well argue that they shouldn't be taught about evolution.

You misunderstand my position.

 

I am glad that my offspring will be taught about homosexual relationships.  I think it is a wonderful thing for children to be exposed to.

 

I 100% agree with you about what religions do.

 

However, can you not see that these parents, influenced by their religion, do not agree.  They have been brainwashed and their actions are being impacted as a result.

 

I almost feel sorry for their children.

 

And children are being taught about drugs. But not in a way that condones their usage.

[Cyclone]

To normalise something I suppose you'd first have to show that it wasn't normal...

 

I can see that they don't agree, yes.  I'm sure there are also many people who don't agree that you shouldn't hit children, but we don't allow it as a society no matter that some people don't agree.