Cyclone Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 You're correct, it's not possible for the network provider or indeed whatsapp to provide the content of encrypted messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Cyclone said: You're correct, it's not possible for the network provider or indeed whatsapp to provide the content of encrypted messages. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 It's also not possible for the police to force someone to unlock a mobile phone and a decent one can't be opened in any other way. 6 hours ago, makapaka said: Unbelievable. Like, literally you don't believe it? Or you're astounded that such technology to provide privacy can exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 21 hours ago, Cyclone said: And so this is specifically about investigating the victim who is reporting the crime in an attempt to disprove that it happened. And that's why it's coercive and also not required in order to investigate the alleged crime. Perhaps if the allegation is against a specific person, and they in turn allege that this is a false report, well now the police have a separate incident to investigate right, and that incident requires that the phone be seized (with a warrant). Or perhaps they could simply get the records from the phone provider, where there is no chance of them having been tampered with and where they can keep the seizure to only the relevant records. I'd expect the police to do some kind of investigation into any alleged victim of a serious crime. I don't see a problem in an alleged victim of rape volunteering to let the police examine their phone. I guess that most rape cases are based on the alleged victims version of events and the alleged rapist version of events and it makes sense for the police to examine the phones of both people involved, if they believe it can help with their enquiries to establish who is telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/handing-over-mobile-phone-data-rape-prosecutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) On 11/05/2019 at 09:51, Lockdoctor said: I'd expect the police to do some kind of investigation into any alleged victim of a serious crime. I don't see a problem in an alleged victim of rape volunteering to let the police examine their phone. I guess that most rape cases are based on the alleged victims version of events and the alleged rapist version of events and it makes sense for the police to examine the phones of both people involved, if they believe it can help with their enquiries to establish who is telling the truth. We're talking about the victim of an alleged rape being required to hand over their phone. Not being able to volunteer it if they wish. And not only if the police thought it was relevant, the change was to apply to ALL rape cases, whether the phone was likely to be of any use or not. 20 hours ago, makapaka said: https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/handing-over-mobile-phone-data-rape-prosecutions What the CPS say and what actually happens appear to be quite different though. https://rightsinfo.org/rape-victims-silenced-by-requirement-to-submit-mobile-phone-data/ Quote “Given the amount of personal and often very intimate data stored on such devices, particularly by young women, it is not surprising that many victims who are reporting a deeply violating offence do not wish to be further exposed. Alison Saunders says she ‘doesn’t think’ innocent people are in jail because of disclosure failures “Most complainants fully understand why disclosure of communications with the defendant is fair and reasonable, but what is not clear is why their past history – including any past sexual history – should be up for grabs. “We seem to be going back to the bad old days when victims of rape are being treated as suspects.” A separate investigation into the use of sexual abuse victims’ personal data by the Information Commissioner is ongoing. Civil liberties charity Big Brother Watch said the policy amounted to a “digital strip search” and said victims should not have to “choose between their privacy and justice”. From https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-victims-police-claim-mobile-phones-investigate-forms-legal-challenge-a8891036.html Edited May 12, 2019 by Cyclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Cyclone said: We're talking about the victim of an alleged rape being required to hand over their phone. Not being able to volunteer it if they wish. And not only if the police thought it was relevant, the change was to apply to ALL rape cases, whether the phone was likely to be of any use or not. What the CPS say and what actually happens appear to be quite different though. https://rightsinfo.org/rape-victims-silenced-by-requirement-to-submit-mobile-phone-data/ From https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-victims-police-claim-mobile-phones-investigate-forms-legal-challenge-a8891036.html Pretty much all of the concerns highlighted in the media reports are addressed in the cps statement which makes specific reference to the inaccurate media reports you are quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 And as I said, the reality appears to be different to what the CPS claim is the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Cyclone said: And as I said, the reality appears to be different to what the CPS claim is the process. Can you evidence that the reality is different to the cps statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Did you read the links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now