Allegations of rape: Why are police asking victims for their phones?

[medusa]

18 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Why would you?

 

 My phone contains loads of personal stuff. It also contains loads of useful stuff.

 

Probably more importantly, it contains plenty of my stuff that is no business of the police.

And even less the business of the defence, who could also ask for all sorts of things from it.

 

There are examples given of investigations being dropped for historical cases of abuse and rape from times before the victim actually HAD a mobile phone, yet they are still expected to allow access to the last 7 years of all of their mobile data.  How, exactly, is that meant to be relevant to the investigation?

[Pettytom]

7 minutes ago, medusa said:

And even less the business of the defence, who could also ask for all sorts of things from it.

 

There are examples given of investigations being dropped for historical cases of abuse and rape from times before the victim actually HAD a mobile phone, yet they are still expected to allow access to the last 7 years of all of their mobile data.  How, exactly, is that meant to be relevant to the investigation?

Indeed.

 

I’d have thought that the suspect would be the focus of any investigation, not the victim.

 

If the victim’s phone is needed, I’m sure that there is a right and proper way to do that without impounding it.

[Guest makapaka]

55 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Indeed.

 

I’d have thought that the suspect would be the focus of any investigation, not the victim.

 

If the victim’s phone is needed, I’m sure that there is a right and proper way to do that without impounding it.

Which is exactly what the police are saying they will do.

 

[medusa]

27 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Which is exactly what the police are saying they will do.

 

Except there are recorded instances of cases being dropped for these reasons. 

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Indeed.

 

I’d have thought that the suspect would be the focus of any investigation, not the victim.

 

If the victim’s phone is needed, I’m sure that there is a right and proper way to do that without impounding it.

ALLEGED "victim"    ALLEGED "suspect"

 

Fair justice works both ways and so should police investigatons.

 

Some people say that the contents of their phone "...is no business of the police and even less of the defence...."   But I would like the investigating authorities to decide that fact.   Who says its no business of the police.    Its clear that nobody seems to give a toss about privacy of the accused even when they are proved innocent but try to do a bit of digging on the alleged victim and people scream the house down. 

 

It stinks.    In an allegation as serious of rape any potentially relevant information should be made available to investigators if they so require.  That includes access to what is, lets face it, one of the most comprehensive information sources that we all carry around in our pockets.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[JamesR123]

So if I raped you, added to the indignity of the assault, you would be happy to surrender your phone to the police?

 

That would leave you cut off from a support network and you would have people looking through all the pictures, all the text messages and all the social media messages you have sent from the phone.

 

Your internet history (you got any fetishes you like to search on porn hub?) would be open to strangers.  My defence payday would bring up everything they could to discredit you.  Your family come to support you in court?  My defense lawyer tells your mum exactly what porn you like.  Exactly what you search for on the internet. 

 

It is a gross breach of privacy.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, JamesR123 said:

So if I raped you, added to the indignity of the assault, you would be happy to surrender your phone to the police?

 

That would leave you cut off from a support network and you would have people looking through all the pictures, all the text messages and all the social media messages you have sent from the phone.

 

Your internet history (you got any fetishes you like to search on porn hub?) would be open to strangers.  My defence payday would bring up everything they could to discredit you.  Your family come to support you in court?  My defense lawyer tells your mum exactly what porn you like.  Exactly what you search for on the internet. 

 

It is a gross breach of privacy.

What part of RELEVANT information and INVESTIGATING AUTHORITIES dont you understand.  We are not talking about someone's entire personal history being thrown around to everyone and thier mother.  

 

Now, in answer to your queston -  YES I would hand my phone over.    If I for one second considered that evidence on it would enable a fair and true investigation and bring justice as quickly as possible - without the risks of delay, adjournment or collapse due to some technicality.

 

I cannot think why any TRUE victim would think otherwise.     If you are telling the truth and have nothing to hide - what's the problem?

 

You bang on about "gross breach of privacy" well what about the accused.       Since when was it guilty until proven innocent. 

 

Why does an alleged victim get more rights to privacy than an alleged accused?    Why is it perfectly acceptable for an alleged suspect to be named and shamed, dragged through the mud with every inch of their life pulled apart for all to see.... but the accusor can maintain their annonymity and scream victimisation if anyone tries to look into their history or even access their data.

 

Fair and balanced?    My backside it is.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[JamesR123]

Relevant is subjective.  There have been many cases in which an alleged victims sexual history (garnered through porn search history and old messages) have been discussed in court.

 

Even if the victim agrees that the stuff brought up by the defence is relevant, you understand that to find that, they have to go through everything on your phone right?

 

Pictures of your Mrs naked, that sneaky d pic you sent etc.

 

It was.neber guilty until proven innocent, what a stupid thing to say lol.

 

I think that the accused should get anonymity until found guilty, but that is a separate issue. 

 

I am not sure whether you have ever been witness to the aftermath of a rape, but from your stance I think you haven't.

 

It is hard enough to report the crime, this would make it harder.  If you can't understand why, then you aren't very smart.

[Pettytom]

17 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

What part of RELEVANT information and INVESTIGATING AUTHORITIES dont you understand.  We are not talking about someone's entire personal history being thrown around to everyone and thier mother.  

 

Now, in answer to your queston -  YES I would hand my phone over.    If I for one second considered that evidence on it would enable a fair and true investigation and bring justice as quickly as possible - without the risks of delay, adjournment or collapse due to some technicality.

 

I cannot think why any TRUE victim would think otherwise.     If you are telling the truth and have nothing to hide - what's the problem?

 

You bang on about "gross breach of privacy" well what about the accused.       Since when was it guilty until proven innocent. 

 

Why does an alleged victim get more rights to privacy than an alleged accused?    Why is it perfectly acceptable for an alleged suspect to be named and shamed, dragged through the mud with every inch of their life pulled apart for all to see.... but the accusor can maintain their annonymity and scream victimisation if anyone tries to look into their history or even access their data.

 

Fair and balanced?    My backside it is.

 

James, that’s some nerve that you’ve touched there.

 

If you were burgled, or mugged, or defrauded, I very much doubt that the police would investigate you, they’d be much more interested in investigating the “alleged” offender. 

 

Why should rape cases be different? 

 

By by all means, have a look at text history if that is important, but that can be done through the service provider. It isn’t right that someone who has been so badly violated at the hands of a criminal, should be even more violated by the police.

[Mister M]

Article in today's Independent that's infuriating. According to the report:

• Tens of thousands of rape cases dropped because of 'police traumatising victims'
• Only 1.5% of reported rape cases result in prosecutions

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-prosecutions-dropping-uk-police-phones-trauma-cps-a9028181.html