Allegations of rape: Why are police asking victims for their phones?

[tinfoilhat]

3 hours ago, alchresearch said:

Perhaps the phone is used as a locator? To verify if the person was in the area of the attack at the time?

Can that not be done without going through someone's phone though? 

 

I know Google et al know where I've been, but I still see my phone and contents as private. I don't want some barrister taking apart my browsing history(and then reported in the news potentially) when I'm the victim. We've already got rape victims getting hammered for what they were wearing or drinking, do we need nude selfies taken 5yearsback being shaken out in court as well? If we are going down this route there must strict oversight.

[willman]

36 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Can that not be done without going through someone's phone though? 

 

I know Google et al know where I've been, but I still see my phone and contents as private. I don't want some barrister taking apart my browsing history(and then reported in the news potentially) when I'm the victim. We've already got rape victims getting hammered for what they were wearing or drinking, do we need nude selfies taken 5yearsback being shaken out in court as well? If we are going down this route there must strict oversight.

No we don't - but perhaps we need those sent to the defendant after the offence has occurred and before it was reported or any other time in between  or during the alleged offence.

 

My OH is working on a case where a lady has claimed rape by a 65 year old man - they were in bed together(she's 40+) and had sex frequently - although this time she was that hammered she didn't think she'd agreed to it. 10 days before trial when the old guy was preparing for a bad future - pictures were shown that she had  taken during the offence and with texts the following day about how good he was for his age.

Even worse it transpires now that this is the third man she's done it too in three different towns.

Edited April 30, 2019 by willman
typo

[Top Cats Hat]

This has comes about after a rape prosecution was dropped at the last moment because it was disclosed that the police knew that the alleged victim has been sending texts to the alleged perp that called the accusation into question.

 

What was never explained at the time was that regardless of whether the police disclosed that certain text messages and social media content existed, why didn't the defendant make this information known to his defence who would then require the police to disclose it and enter it into evidence? If a defendant claims that the person accusing them sent them certain text messages, posted stuff on facebook or rang their mobile 27 times a day then the police don't need to see the victim's phone to get that information. The same goes for GPS location. Only the phone number is needed, not the actual phone.

 

I suspect that this whole thing is a panic reaction to the number of collapsed cases which can be simply solved by the police and prosecution (and defence) actually doing their job properly.

 

All this will do is cause even greater under reporting of certain crimes. 

[Mister M]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

This has comes about after a rape prosecution was dropped at the last moment because it was disclosed that the police knew that the alleged victim has been sending texts to the alleged perp that called the accusation into question.

 

What was never explained at the time was that regardless of whether the police disclosed that certain text messages and social media content existed, why didn't the defendant make this information known to his defence who would then require the police to disclose it and enter it into evidence? If a defendant claims that the person accusing them sent them certain text messages, posted stuff on facebook or rang their mobile 27 times a day then the police don't need to see the victim's phone to get that information. The same goes for GPS location. Only the phone number is needed, not the actual phone.

 

I suspect that this whole thing is a panic reaction to the number of collapsed cases which can be simply solved by the police and prosecution (and defence) actually doing their job properly.

 

All this will do is cause even greater under reporting of certain crimes. 

My thoughts entirely

[Top Cats Hat]

16 minutes ago, willman said:

10 days before trial when the old guy was preparing for a bad future - pictures were shown that she had  taken during the offence and with texts the following day about how good he was for his age.

Texts to who?

 

If they were presumably sent to the defendant, why did he not mention them to his solicitor or the police when he was questioned?

[willman]

26 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Texts to who?

 

If they were presumably sent to the defendant, why did he not mention them to his solicitor or the police when he was questioned?

They apparently couldn't initially prove when they were taken although they knew when they were received. She denied any knowledge of them and claimed they were done without her knowledge initially. It was a long and strange investigation which had lasted nearly 18 months.

 

[medusa]

I would have no problem with the police having access to any information held by my phone, but if I had been raped I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable with all of that being turned over to my rapist and his legal team, then picked apart and used against me in open court.

 

Let's be honest here, although cases cannot officially be defended on a 'she was dressed provocatively so she was asking for it' defence. conversations with other people, intimate photos and the like could all be used to colour a jury's opinion.

 

Who would welcome that one?  I wouldn't, even though I know for a fact that there is nothing even vaguely intimate on my phone (unless you count texts booking a gardener to come and build me some fencing, or photos of the dog and cats as intimate).

[Guest makapaka]

18 minutes ago, medusa said:

I would have no problem with the police having access to any information held by my phone, but if I had been raped I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable with all of that being turned over to my rapist and his legal team, then picked apart and used against me in open court.

 

Let's be honest here, although cases cannot officially be defended on a 'she was dressed provocatively so she was asking for it' defence. conversations with other people, intimate photos and the like could all be used to colour a jury's opinion.

 

Who would welcome that one?  I wouldn't, even though I know for a fact that there is nothing even vaguely intimate on my phone (unless you count texts booking a gardener to come and build me some fencing, or photos of the dog and cats as intimate).

Or used to prosecute the rapist? It's evidence - simple as that.

As I said before - the same logic would have to apply to the defendant - just change the words round to your opening statement

 

"I would have no problem with the police having access to any information held by my phone, but if I had been wrongly accused of rape I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable with all of that being turned over to my accuser and her legal team, then picked apart and used against me in open court."

 

 

[Top Cats Hat]

1 hour ago, willman said:

They apparently couldn't initially prove when they were taken although they knew when they were received. 

Sounds very fishy to me! All photos taken digitally carry metadata saying exactly when they were taken, as countless insurance fraudsters have found out after sending photos of ‘stolen’ goods to their insurers which were taken after the items were stolen. The same goes for texts, emails and social media posts.

57 minutes ago, makapaka said:

"I would have no problem with the police having access to any information held by my phone, but if I had been wrongly accused of rape...”

A valid point, however false rape allegations are relatively rare whereas under reporting of rape and other sexual offences is a big problem.

 

Given that, the judicial system should be concentrating on encouraging genuine rape reports than preventing false ones, nothing should be done to discourage the former.

 

This is just another badly thought out, knee jerk response to a problem which can easily be solved by people doing their jobs properly.

[altus]

27 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Sounds very fishy to me! All photos taken digitally carry metadata saying exactly when they were taken, as countless insurance fraudsters have found out after sending photos of ‘stolen’ goods to their insurers which were taken after the items were stolen. The same goes for texts, emails and social media posts.

In this case I'm not sure when a photo was taken is the most important factor anyway and it's easy enough to scrub or edit the metadata. A photo could be taken whilst a relationship is ongoing, months before an offence is alleged to have taken place. If it's sent after the alleged offence, that would be of interest to the police - regardless of when it was taken.