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Euro Elections

Pettytom
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mort
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This thread has been reviewed and returned to the main forum. 


A couple of points for you to take note of.

 

We expect it to remain civil and within our usual forum rules.

 

As this is about an election the following will apply

 

Here at SF we try to ensure fair play, and that includes during elections. We don't allow links direct to political party websites or to sites that spread spurious stories for political influence at any time, and that will continue. We also ask candidates and those campaigning for political parties to follow our code of conduct in the run up to elections. In order to not provide any influence unfairly to any side, we ask that those who are standing or who represent a party refrain from posting in threads to do with political discussion or elections during the 4 week run up to the vote.

It's  mandatory and your account will be suspended if you don't do it.

 

If you have any questions please take them to the helpdesk rather than starting threads attacking the forum team. If you do that then your account will be suspended. 

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Cyclone Veteran

Cyclone

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I voted to remain because I hadn't  been convinced to vote leave and listened to David Cameron's words.  I wouldn't have bothered  to turn out to vote, if I had known the result of the EU referendum wasn't going to be implemented if leave won.  The reason why more people voted in the 2016 EU referendum than in any other election in UK history is because every voter believed whatever the result, the wishes of the majority would be implemented.

 

The moral argument is that the democratic EU referendum result should have been fully respected.   Anyone who thinks otherwise has no respect for democracy when the democratic wishes of the majority don't mirror their own personal wishes.

No you didn't.  You've been claiming to have voted remain for quite a long time now whilst strongly supporting brexit, you're as transparent as a pane of glass.

 

Democracy doesn't mean that decisions can't be changed, nor does it mean that those who disagree with them can't fight against them.

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Lockdoctor

Lockdoctor

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

No you didn't.  You've been claiming to have voted remain for quite a long time now whilst strongly supporting brexit, you're as transparent as a pane of glass.

 

Democracy doesn't mean that decisions can't be changed, nor does it mean that those who disagree with them can't fight against them.

I did vote remain.  Yes, I have strongly supported Brexit since 24th June 2016 when the result of the EU referendum result was announced. All of us should have got behind Brexit after the result of the 2016 EU referendum was announced. 

 

I won't be voting in the Euro elections because the UK should not be taking part.  The UK should have left the EU on 29th March this year.

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Tony Experienced

Tony

Posted
Posted

Democracy is often inconvenient. "Fighting" (what a silly but oft' used turn of phrase when we think about it) against it doesn't make you right, it just makes you anti-democratic. By all means put another point of view to finesse the outcome but if the demos is ignored and marginalised it doesn't ever end well.  It's remarkable that so many people are arguing against a democratic decision that was taken three years ago instead of implementing it to the best possible outcome, but that is the open society that we choose. 

 

We are all bound by some very basic tenets of modern civilisation which are simply not to be ignored, no matter how inconvenient or difficult they might be. Today it is the EU, a matter of little real significance to most people no matter how emotional they imagine themselves to be about it. Tomorrow it might be government of a very different stripe who has the precedent and instruction manual for doing as they like regardless of what citizens want. We sow the seeds of our future today, and none of us are entitled to anything more than we deserve from our peers. 

 

And yes, there are lots of snippets to quote above, starting with "there's no good Brexit". None of them are anything more than opinion. Democracy however, is absolute if it to mean anything at all.

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I1L2T3 Experienced

I1L2T3

Posted
Posted
Just now, Tony said:

Democracy is often inconvenient. "Fighting" (what a silly but oft' used turn of phrase when we think about it) against it doesn't make you right, it just makes you anti-democratic. By all means put another point of view to finesse the outcome but if the demos is ignored and marginalised it doesn't ever end well.  It's remarkable that so many people are arguing against a democratic decision that was taken three years ago instead of implementing it to the best possible outcome, but that is the open society that we choose. 

 

We are all bound by some very basic tenets of modern civilisation which are simply not to be ignored, no matter how inconvenient or difficult they might be. Today it is the EU, a matter of little real significance to most people no matter how emotional they imagine themselves to be about it. Tomorrow it might be government of a very different stripe who has the precedent and instruction manual for doing as they like regardless of what citizens want. We sow the seeds of our future today, and none of us are entitled to anything more than we deserve from our peers. 

 

And yes, there are lots of snippets to quote above, starting with "there's no good Brexit". None of them are anything more than opinion. Democracy however, is absolute if it to mean anything at all.

Nope. There is nothing democratic about upholding bad decisions.

 

Brexit is a bad decision. Claiming that we should force it through regardless of any consequences is anti-democratic.

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Cyclone Veteran

Cyclone

Posted
Posted

Fighting for or against something doesn't make you right or wrong.  It's definitely not anti-democratic.  The right to fight for or against an idea is the very basis of democracy.

 

It's remarkable that you consider it undemocratic to fight for something to change, as I just said, the very basis of democracy.

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I1L2T3 Experienced

I1L2T3

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Tony said:

You are wrong.

Nope. You are.

 

The very definition of democracy is what the electorate want now. It’s a constant dialogue that doesn’t stop with certain events. The dialogue never stops.

 

Even governments with solid majorities have to pause to consider sometimes based on the national mood. 

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Cyclone Veteran

Cyclone

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Tony said:

You are wrong.

If it's undemocratic to change your mind (collectively as a country) then the referendum should never have been held as it was questioning a previous decision.

And of course many things that we take for granted now, like homosexuality not being a crime, well, that was a change of a previous decision, it was something that people had to fight for, the right to vote for women, had to be fought for and was a change to a previous decision.

Can you see how backwards you've got it, democracy requires that people fight for what they think is right.  Previous decisions have to be open to question and revision, that's a basic tenet of democracy.

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

You need to bring more than your opinion to this discussion. You are still wrong. 

Lol, ironic.

Go ahead then and bring something other than opinion to show why it's wrong to fight against a decision you disagree with. 

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