Euro Elections

[Dardandec]

39 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

Yet some on here still claim the EU isnt a dictatorship .

That's probably aimed at the fact that there are grown ups there, so you would be stuffed straight away. 

[L00b]

14 hours ago, Penistone999 said:

Yet some on here still claim the EU isnt a dictatorship .

Far from a ‘dictatorship’ the EU is a complex organisation with a lot of rules including, for MEPs, a code of conduct, the breaching of which involves sanction(s).

 

Sanctions such as already experienced by Mr Farage, Ms Lepen and so many other self-serving gobsh*tes, very justly so: it’s your public money AND that of the other EU27 taxpayers that they’re misspending on their mates, mistresses and national politics.

 

No different in principle to e.g. sackable offences in your employment contract: you get caught with your hand in the till or selling client lists to competitors, is your employer a dictator when they sack you over it? Didn’t think so.

 

With your opinions of record, I’m not really surprised that you find such concepts difficult to fathom and accept.

Edited May 7, 2019 by L00b

[hgdave]

On 05/05/2019 at 21:08, Top Cats Hat said:

They did, but given that nobody actually said what leave actually meant at the time of the referendum it's not surprising that nobody can make up their mind what to vote for. At the end of the day, MPs have to vote for what they believe is in the interests of their constituencies and not be bullied into supporting something they don't believe in by a shouty minority.

 

Of course all this was said at the time of the referendum but it was drowned out by talk of immigrants, bendy bananas and blue passports. 

 

Stop blaming the politicians.

 

This mess is entirely of our own making.

 So let me get this right. Politicians agreed to implement the result of the referendum even if they didn't know what it meant.Blimey next you will be saying  politicians will say anything to get elected

[Top Cats Hat]

3 minutes ago, hgdave said:

 So let me get this right. Politicians agreed to implement the result of the referendum even if they didn't know what it meant.

Yes, in an act of complete political stupidity they took the result of an inconclusive advisory referendum where neither side got the support of even 40% of the electorate and made it an election committment without any idea of what that entailed.

 

We then voted for them so yes, this mess is very much of our own making.

[apelike]

11 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

We then voted for them so yes, this mess is very much of our own making.

It is not the voters problem as we elect politicians through a democratic process for them to represent us. Parliament and its MP's debated the referendum act and also the wording on the ballot paper and could have put any conditions on the referendum but failed to do so in this case. That is completely outside the control of the votes who were only just given a binary question to answer and like it or not the majority of voters voted leave.

 

BTW It was also conclusive and being advisory has no bearing at all on the matter. You either agree to democracy or you dont, which is it?

[Car Boot]

8 million eligible people, mostly under 30, have yet to register to vote in the Euro elections.

 

I wonder why this is?

 

[Top Cats Hat]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

BTW It was also conclusive and being advisory has no bearing at all on the matter. You either agree to democracy or you dont, which is it?

I do believe in democracy.

 

Making the most significant change to our economy based on the say so of 25% of the population and 36% of the electorate is not democratic and anyone who says it is really needs to think about what democracy really means.

[kaytie]

IMO the first referendum was such a can of worms,  the only reasonable course of action now is a another vote now that all the implications are known.

[Magilla]

22 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I do believe in democracy.

 

Making the most significant change to our economy based on the say so of 25% of the population and 36% of the electorate is not democratic and anyone who says it is really needs to think about what democracy really means.

Clement Attlee denounced referenda as “alien to all our traditions”, an “instrument of Nazism” & "a device for despots and dictators"

 

Margaret Thatcher called referenda “a device of dictators and demagogues” that would be dangerous to minorities and destructive of parliamentary sovereignty

 

Lets not forget David Davis - "We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it.”

 

So much for democracy eh

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Magilla

[Top Cats Hat]

27 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Clement Attlee denounced referenda as “alien to all our traditions”, an “instrument of Nazism” & "a device for despots and dictators"

 

Margaret Thatcher called referenda “a device of dictators and demagogues” that would be dangerous to minorities and destructive of parliamentary sovereignty

 

So much for democracy eh

 

Nothing wrong with a referendum on a single issue as long as it is designed to reflect the wishes of the majority of citizens. This can only be done if participating is compulsory or a majority of the electorate is the threshold for success of an option. When neither side can achieve that majority then the status quo prevails.

 

With something fundamental like leaving the EU which takes years to achieve and has far reaching implications, then a 'clear majority' should be defined to ensure support for that measure years after the vote rather than a simple majority which may have reversed even before the result is implemented.