British steel facing administration

[Magilla]

57 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

You need to brush up on your maths. The pound falling has made imports more expensive, and exporting our goods cheaper. Those factors would have been of net benefit to British Steel.

Your product doesn't get cheaper if the raw materials used to make it are also imported

 

 

 

[Voice of reason]

46 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Your product doesn't get cheaper if the raw materials used to make it are also imported

 

 

 

Can you quantify that please. What proportion of the cost of British Steel finished goods is attributable to raw material? presumably you know, and have the facts to hand to justify your claim.

I'm sure you know there's lots more to it than some coke and iron ore?? 

[Voice of reason]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

 

Have also had a look at what is supposedly the salary of your average Chinese steel worker.  Latest info I could find is from 2017 when the hourly rate was the equivalent of $3.60 or £2.85 at today's rate. 

 

How can you compete with that? 

This is a major element in all of it. Low wages, low regulation = lower prices. We accept their goods, made with low safety, high pollution and accept it.

It is also something for everyone to watch out for. People may well accept the steelworkers going to the wall, but there are also low paid engineers, graphic designers etc etc etc in China, all willing and able to undercut workers here. The same problem will soon start happening to people who don't have old fashioned smelly jobs.

[Magilla]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

Can you quantify that please. What proportion of the cost of British Steel finished goods is attributable to raw material? presumably you know, and have the facts to hand to justify your claim.

I didn't claim the falling pound was a net benefit to British Steel, you did.., complete with some snide quip about maths.

 

Clearly, you already have the "facts" or your pathetic quip would just make you look like a total tool?

 

How about you prove your claim, since you made it first?

 

[melthebell]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

This is a major element in all of it. Low wages, low regulation = lower prices. We accept their goods, made with low safety, high pollution and accept it.

It is also something for everyone to watch out for. People may well accept the steelworkers going to the wall, but there are also low paid engineers, graphic designers etc etc etc in China, all willing and able to undercut workers here. The same problem will soon start happening to people who don't have old fashioned smelly jobs.

exactly...but you dont help it by sticking yet another "brexit" hurdle in the way that hinders not helps

[Staunton]

On 22/05/2019 at 12:24, lobster said:

Whilst no doubt Brexit and Cheap Chinese Steel have played their part in British Steel's demise . Everybody seems to be missing the obvious,  the rather " murky " secretive hedge fund Greybull that acquired British Steel . They have a track record of acquiring distressed companies ,restructuring them so when they do go  bust Greybull make money . Remember Monarch Airlines ,Greybull claimed it would lose up to £250 million when in fact they had struck a rather lucrative deal with Boeing insulating themselves against large losses

 

Greybull acquired what was to become British Steel from Tata for £1 though there are unconfirmed reports that Tata handed over a not insignificant dowry and Tata picking up some of the pension liabilities . (Shades of Philip Green & BHS  ) Greybull seem to have put very little of their own money in  , taken out in substantial  fees  and protected itself as a secured creditor whilst leaving the British Taxpayer to pick up the tab

Thank you lobster for drawing attention to this neoliberal sleeze.

 

Here's what Jonty Bloom, Business Correspondent for BBC News had to say yesterday on Radio 4's The World at One, on the subject of Greybull private equity:

 

'... if you sell a company of 5000 people for a pound, presumably because you're trying to get it off your hands because you think it's a lost cause, and it was certainly a loss-making plant, and it's far from clear if they ever could manage to turn it round successfully. Also there's a fair amount of controversy about this because Greybull is one of these private equity firms, they basically invest the money of two very wealthy European families through Greybull, and it charges, for instance, British Steel plant management fees for running it. It also lends it money at above market rates, so it makes money on the interest it lends to its own companies. And many people will say there's been a long tradition opf these private equity companies coming in, buying distressed firms, basically making a profit while they go bust, and then walking away from them when they go into administration. And this isn't the first one for Greybull. Monarch Airlines went bust when they owned it. and the taxpayer had to spend £60million flying its customers home from abroad.'

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000570v

 

I wonder how much Greybull made out of this little episode? There are all the usual signals of tax abuse in Greybull's strategy.

 

A nice little earner for some, while five thousand ordinary people stare at a bleak future and another town loses its economic base?

[steved32]

Tory philosophy ... market forces... nowt to do wi'us.

 

Thatcherism was overtly spiteful to the North.  This lot are far more devious ... we shall do this, we shall do that, we shall give ... after years of cuts.  Almost a year since May and Hammond announced Austerity was over!

 

Liars.

 

 

 

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[El Cid]

4 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Top are the Chinese who produced 928.3 million tonnes. The UK is placed at position 22 with 7.7 million tonnes, just ahead of that mighty steel producing nation, Austria on 6.9 million tonnes but behind Egypt on 7.8 million tonnes.  For comparison, Poland 19th, (10.2); France 15th, (15.4); Italy 11th, (24.5) & Germany 7th, (42.4).  So there you have it, our place in the world.  Or another way to look at it is that by amount, the UK probably manages to sell more of its steel by percentage as we don't produce as much as the others. 

 

Have also had a look at what is supposedly the salary of your average Chinese steel worker.  Latest info I could find is from 2017 when the hourly rate was the equivalent of $3.60 or £2.85 at today's rate. 

 

How can you compete with that? 

3

Germany manages to compete, but if we cannot compete fairly, then that is what tariffs are for, which the Tories blocked.

Trump put a tariff of 25% on steel imports in 2018, a little over a year later he exempted some countries, but a good boost to the steel manufacturers in the USA.

[Voice of reason]

53 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Germany manages to compete, but if we cannot compete fairly, then that is what tariffs are for, which the Tories blocked.

Trump put a tariff of 25% on steel imports in 2018, a little over a year later he exempted some countries, but a good boost to the steel manufacturers in the USA.

Those tariffs would have to be eu wide of course.

I don't imagine the tories care if british steel succeeds or fails.

[Voice of reason]

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

Germany manages to compete, but if we cannot compete fairly, then that is what tariffs are for, which the Tories blocked.

Trump put a tariff of 25% on steel imports in 2018, a little over a year later he exempted some countries, but a good boost to the steel manufacturers in the USA.

Germany has had a completely different attitude to engineering and manufacturing for decades. They now reap the benefit of that investment, training and infrastructure.

Our country has done the opposite and is hell bent on a Starbucks driven economy.