Bruce To Leave? Now gone!

[Brooker11]

32 minutes ago, DerbyTup said:

I'll tell you where the issue is mate.  You've got loads of players on huge salaries that you can't afford - and no one wants to buy them.  You've got a "soft" transfer embargo on you and despite selling the club back to yourselves to make the books look better, you've still got the threat of FFP hanging over you because you are almost certain to exceed the £39m allowable spend.    Does that help?  Or have I imagined that and it's just "spin"?

You need to differentiate between not being able to afford players (untrue) and not abiding by the EFL's ridiculous and restricting rulings, the soft embargo has been lifted and FFP doesn't exist anymore.

 

Why was it ok for Kevin McCabe to shift assets around to avoid going into embargo/being dissolved (see the records from the recent High Court case) but you demonise the chairman of SWFC for doing it.

 

You can check via Experian the amount of "new" companies that suddenly appeared just before the sale to the Prince.

[Mr Bloke]

1 hour ago, Brooker11 said:

You need to differentiate between not being able to afford players (untrue) and not abiding by the EFL's ridiculous and restricting rulings, the soft embargo has been lifted and FFP doesn't exist anymore.

 

Why was it ok for Kevin McCabe to shift assets around to avoid going into embargo/being dissolved (see the records from the recent High Court case) but you demonise the chairman of SWFC for doing it.

 

You can check via Experian the amount of "new" companies that suddenly appeared just before the sale to the Prince.

Hmmm...

... well if that's true (and I'm sure it must be if you've gone to all the trouble of finding out) then that just highlights the difference between the two cases.

 

If the new companies appeared (allegedly) 'before the sale to the Prince' then presumably the Prince must have known exactly what he was buying because it happened before the sale...

 

... whereas the sale of Hillsborough is the direct result of failing to keep within the rules of FFP and is an action that happened after the event in an attempt to dodge any penalties (maybe they should have asked advice from Jordan Rhodes on that one).

 

And before you remind us once again that FFP doesn't exist anymore, I'll just remind you that the recently submitted accounts are relating to season 2017-2018 - when I believe FFP was alive and well, and still known by it's original name.

[Brooker11]

2 hours ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

... well if that's true (and I'm sure it must be if you've gone to all the trouble of finding out) then that just highlights the difference between the two cases.

 

If the new companies appeared (allegedly) 'before the sale to the Prince' then presumably the Prince must have known exactly what he was buying because it happened before the sale...

 

... whereas the sale of Hillsborough is the direct result of failing to keep within the rules of FFP and is an action that happened after the event in an attempt to dodge any penalties (maybe they should have asked advice from Jordan Rhodes on that one).

 

And before you remind us once again that FFP doesn't exist anymore, I'll just remind you that the recently submitted accounts are relating to season 2017-2018 - when I believe FFP was alive and well, and still known by it's original name.

A flurry of companies were also listed in December last year. I hope the Prince did more due diligence on McCabe than was done vice versa or he won't have found anything.

 

If FFP/P&S has been circumvented which was the aim in both cases and neither is breaking any law I don't see what your problem is. McCabe said in the High Court that had he not done it SUFC would have been dissolved.

[DerbyTup]

Well, it's good to hear that SWFC have no financial issues then and I'm sure you'll be looking forward to the coming season, if that's the case.

 

I think a lot will depend on you getting a good experienced manager in and holding on to a few of your better players, whilst bringing in some fresh blood.  

 

I honestly think you'll struggle because the club is in need of a major overhaul of its playing staff and I don't think the financial capability is there to do that.  But, we'll see. 

 

 

[NERVY-OWL]

22 minutes ago, DerbyTup said:

Well, it's good to hear that SWFC have no financial issues then and I'm sure you'll be looking forward to the coming season, if that's the case.

 

I think a lot will depend on you getting a good experienced manager in and holding on to a few of your better players, whilst bringing in some fresh blood.  

 

I honestly think you'll struggle because the club is in need of a major overhaul of its playing staff and I don't think the financial capability is there to do that.  But, we'll see. 

 

 

I don't agree about a major overhaul. Yes it needed freshing up with new players but our form with Bruce would of got us a playoff place if it had stayed the same. We have let some deadwood go, 3 new players signed so far. Another couple of players in the right positions and we could do well providing we have the right guy in charge

[Brooker11]

44 minutes ago, DerbyTup said:

Well, it's good to hear that SWFC have no financial issues then and I'm sure you'll be looking forward to the coming season, if that's the case.

 

I think a lot will depend on you getting a good experienced manager in and holding on to a few of your better players, whilst bringing in some fresh blood.  

 

I honestly think you'll struggle because the club is in need of a major overhaul of its playing staff and I don't think the financial capability is there to do that.  But, we'll see. 

 

 

Like I said you don't seem to be able to get the difference between nearly going bust (Bolton, Bury and as revealed in the High Court SUFC) and just not complying with P&S, two very different beasts.

 

We've got a good squad we don't need any major overhaul and we've had no problem holding onto players under DC we've lacked pace but we now have Odubajo, Harris and Iorfa who all have it to burn, a couple more additions and the right man at the helm and we'll be there or thereabouts.

[petcharlie]

It is a good job then that the Blades are successful and got promotion with a 170 million pound prize fund with add on's.🤣By the way I thought I was on a Blades thread sorry about that I did not realise it was about Brucie the guy that was going to bring you success and all the riches of the Prem.

Edited July 18, 2019 by petcharlie

[DerbyTup]

3 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

Like I said you don't seem to be able to get the difference between nearly going bust (Bolton, Bury and as revealed in the High Court SUFC) and just not complying with P&S, two very different beasts.

 

We've got a good squad we don't need any major overhaul and we've had no problem holding onto players under DC we've lacked pace but we now have Odubajo, Harris and Iorfa who all have it to burn, a couple more additions and the right man at the helm and we'll be there or thereabouts.

We've never been in danger of going bust.  McCabe always had the capacity to bail us out, he had a reason to state that in Court, because he wanted to emphasise the lack of contribution from the other party and make it clear that without his contribution we were at risk.  

 

I do understand the difference between this and falling foul of the FFP regulations and I agree with you that they are two totally different situations.  However, the FFP was introduced for a reason and what your club has done is to flout the regulations - so I think you should be accountable for that.  

 

Bruce himself said that the squad needed "refreshing".  I think that was understating it tbh.  You do have some good players and you played really well since Bruce came in.  But I think you'll struggle to hold on to some of these players and there's not much opportunity to bring in better quality new ones.

 

It will be interesting to see how things develop, or not, from here.  

 

I think you're in for a difficult season.  But, if you can turn it round under these circumstances then all credit to your club.

[Brooker11]

1 hour ago, DerbyTup said:

We've never been in danger of going bust.  McCabe always had the capacity to bail us out, he had a reason to state that in Court, because he wanted to emphasise the lack of contribution from the other party and make it clear that without his contribution we were at risk.  

 

I do understand the difference between this and falling foul of the FFP regulations and I agree with you that they are two totally different situations.  However, the FFP was introduced for a reason and what your club has done is to flout the regulations - so I think you should be accountable for that.  

 

Bruce himself said that the squad needed "refreshing".  I think that was understating it tbh.  You do have some good players and you played really well since Bruce came in.  But I think you'll struggle to hold on to some of these players and there's not much opportunity to bring in better quality new ones.

 

It will be interesting to see how things develop, or not, from here.  

 

I think you're in for a difficult season.  But, if you can turn it round under these circumstances then all credit to your club.

We've hardly sold a player of note since DC took over (not always a good thing) what makes you think that will change now?

 

You might have had McCabe to bail you out but you must have been running up heavy debts for him to have to, the way United fans slate DC on here I'd expect you to be whiter than white, McCabe set up fringe companies to keep the football club solvent, why is this any different to what DC has done, its called creative accounting and all big businesses do it.

 

All squads need refreshing no matter how good or bad, that doesnt signify wholesale changes, we needed pace we've now got it.

[DerbyTup]

7 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

We've hardly sold a player of note since DC took over (not always a good thing) what makes you think that will change now?

 

You might have had McCabe to bail you out but you must have been running up heavy debts for him to have to, the way United fans slate DC on here I'd expect you to be whiter than white, McCabe set up fringe companies to keep the football club solvent, why is this any different to what DC has done, its called creative accounting and all big businesses do it.

 

All squads need refreshing no matter how good or bad, that doesnt signify wholesale changes, we needed pace we've now got it.

You've not sold a player of note because no one has wanted to buy what you've got!  😊  I don't think that will change now - that's part of your problem isn't it?  You've got players that you paid big money for, on big wages, and they've done nothing to enhance their value and are not wanted by other clubs.

 

Like most EFL clubs, United have been running at a loss for years, although the trend has been positive over the past few years, due to performances on the pitch of course.  See below.

 

 

It would be interesting to see the same data for Wednesday over this period.  It must exist somewhere eh? 😊 

 

You're convinced you don't need to make wholesale changes and that you've fixed the problem of no pace in the side with your recent signings.  I don't see it like that.  I think the whole set-up needs a pitch-fork taking to it and turning over, I think the playing squad needs "root and branch" surgery.  But to do that you need money and expertise.  I don't think you have much of either tbh.  That's why I think you'll struggle.

 

Anyhow, it doesn't matter whether we agree or not.  It's just a matter of opinion.  I think we can both agree though that Wednesday would rather be in United's position now eh?  😂