Sheffield Clean Air Zone

[Westie1889]

On 09/07/2019 at 09:40, Cyclone said:

Looking it up, it IS possible though, apparently, but I guess a taxi driver might want to talk (or email) these guys directly and ask about how they operate in their home cities (which I think are fairly flat).

 

https://insideevs.com/news/334976/it-turns-out-tesla-vehicles-really-make-great-taxis/

 

The cost savings actually sound quite impressive though.

 

Read the comments though, it appears that the article is somewhat on the shady side of "promotional material" for Tesla, with the figures for the maintenance costs of ICE cars having been inflated or just plain old made up.

I looked at buying electric for private use but need something that can do 300miles round trip (my commute twice a week). Nothing apart from the Tesla can do that comfortably.

The issue I had was that the battery and therefore performance deteriorates overtime and the resale value will plummet. The cost for a new battery - an eye watering £16k!

I get electric cars for popping around town for private users but for most commercial uses the technology just isn’t there yet.

If the council really wanted to sort things out they should firstly ensure all their own vehicles are electric (hypocrisy if not), and secondly encourage those who can switch to electric as private drivers to do so.

It seems really unfair to try to kill people trying to make a living who are already facing massive challenges through Uber etc.

As for the City Centre it’s not a destination, many people tend to pop in for a specific shop or cafe etc You cant really go for a days shopping as there simply isn’t the choice.

Taking this into account if the council decide to charge drivers say £10 it will kill footfall in the City Centre.

£10 to park in mediocre Sheffield or £21 on the train to Manchester? I know where I would go.

A difficult problem for the Council to solve but they need to show some creativity and common-sense on this.

[Litotes]

46 minutes ago, Westie1889 said:

A difficult problem for the Council to solve but they need to show some creativity and common-sense on this.

The council have never shown common sense around anything.

The hold public consultations and don't record them for the record and then deny what has been said because it isn't on the public record.

They charge parking in the evenings when they could make it free and stimulate retail.

They charge on some bank holidays

They introduced a PPZ round the city and only implement parking permits in the more affluent areas - thus contradicting their own statements.

 

Basically, they want to have a race to the bottom for Sheffield where the shops are all charity shops or boarded up, where no-one uses public transport and where the a mucky red flag will fly over a once proud city.

[ads36]

On 30/01/2020 at 21:21, Litotes said:

They charge parking in the evenings when they could make it free and stimulate retail.

Sheffield parking charges are cheap.

 

and it's easy : open the app on your phone, type in the park number, choose a number of hours, done. couple of quid.

 

[Planner1]

On 30/01/2020 at 21:21, Litotes said:

They charge parking in the evenings when they could make it free and stimulate retail.

 

Every large town and city charges to park and the vast majority charge into the evening. Leeds and Nottingham charge till 10pm. 

 

There is very little retail open in Sheffield after 6pm and it was exactly the same before the Council started charging after 6.30. The Business Improvement District (BID) which includes the retailers, make great play of the cheap parking charges in Sheffield in the evening.

 

My observation on the evening visits I make  is that the Council's parking is quite busy, so plenty of people don't mind paying. If someone is put off from visiting by a parking charge of a couple of quid for 4 hours, how much do we think they are actually going to spend on retail, food, drink or whatever?

[Planner1]

On 30/01/2020 at 21:21, Litotes said:

They introduced a PPZ round the city and only implement parking permits in the more affluent areas

 

So Highfield and (parts of) Broomhall are affluent areas are they?

[Litotes]

30 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

So Highfield and (parts of) Broomhall are affluent areas are they?

These days yes, have you seen the cost of housing there?

Where are the PPZ s in the Manor or on Park Hill or Norfolk Park?

 

When you look at the PPZ map, you can see it has been targeted at a specific demographic and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ring around the city that we were told lies about.

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/parking/apply-parking-permit/parking-permit-zones

 

Also, when the fiasco was started (you were still in post if I remember), they weren't segregated into tiny pockets of parking, you would be able to park in quite a wide area with a permit. Now it seems in some areas you have a permit for your street, and if you want to park anywhere else you pay - again totally contradicting the lies were were told - it is about stopping commuters parking during the day.

 

No, it is blatantly obvious that it is a scheme to fleece those people in the south and west of the city to subsidise the rest of the city.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Every large town and city charges to park and the vast majority charge into the evening. Leeds and Nottingham charge till 10pm. 

 

There is very little retail open in Sheffield after 6pm and it was exactly the same before the Council started charging after 6.30. The Business Improvement District (BID) which includes the retailers, make great play of the cheap parking charges in Sheffield in the evening.

 

My observation on the evening visits I make  is that the Council's parking is quite busy, so plenty of people don't mind paying. If someone is put off from visiting by a parking charge of a couple of quid for 4 hours, how much do we think they are actually going to spend on retail, food, drink or whatever?

But its not about putting them off, its about actively encouraging them - something the council don't seem to do.

[Planner1]

14 hours ago, Litotes said:

These days yes, have you seen the cost of housing there?

Where are the PPZ s in the Manor or on Park Hill or Norfolk Park?

 

When you look at the PPZ map, you can see it has been targeted at a specific demographic and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ring around the city that we were told lies about.

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/parking/apply-parking-permit/parking-permit-zones

 

Also, when the fiasco was started (you were still in post if I remember), they weren't segregated into tiny pockets of parking, you would be able to park in quite a wide area with a permit. Now it seems in some areas you have a permit for your street, and if you want to park anywhere else you pay - again totally contradicting the lies were were told - it is about stopping commuters parking during the day.

 

No, it is blatantly obvious that it is a scheme to fleece those people in the south and west of the city to subsidise the rest of the city.

 

I don't think the people who live in those areas would agree with you. Not too long ago one of the  Green party councillors spoke to me of their "hard pressed inner city constituents" (in Highfield) when they were asking for permit prices to be reduced as they felt the residents couldn't afford them. Hardly indicative of an affluent neighbourhood.

 

When the PPZ started to be introduced, the areas which were selected were picked because of the level of support / requests for parking schemes were highest in those areas. We started with the ones which we felt had the  highest levels of support, Broomhall and Broomhill, where residents and businesses had been campaigning for years for a parking scheme.

 

When we then moved to adjacent areas like yours, in Sharrow Vale, we found that although there had been a lot of requests, once we consulted, we found there were quite a few people who were against it (which is why some parts of the area were left out of it) . After your scheme was introduced, they put a scheme in at Hillsborough, which was much reduced in scope because of lack of public support in the wider area. They also consulted on a scheme around the Northern General Hospital, which did not progress due to a lack of public support.  So, basically what happened was that the Council stopped introducing permit zones because there wasn't enough public support in the areas which hadn't yet been included.

 

The Sharrow Vale scheme you lived in at the time was a very big scheme and a permit holder could park in any part of it. That brings a few problems, like when residents of the wider area want to go park around Ecclesall Rd to do their shopping and the folk who actually live there can't find any spaces. They lobbied Councillors to split the zone up and when the Lib-Dems came into power, they took a decision to do that. That was a political decision. As the officers have always been at pains to point out, things can change over time and no-one can guarantee they won't. Residents and businesses in an area are told this very clearly when consultation on a new zone is taking place. People in your zone were told that, I was there I told them, as did others.

 

The permit zones are nothing to do with "fleecing" people. They are a genuine attempt at managing commuter parking and trying to give local residents and businesses some degree of priority. No intervention you can ever do is going to suit everyone and there is always debate about the right approach.

 

The Council do intend to complete the PPZ around the city centre as set out in their parking strategy here There is now a lot more public support for parking schemes as the situation has got a lot worse in many of the areas around the city centre in particular, like Kelham, Neepsend, Granville Rd area etc. The problem the Council have is one of resources, they need money to implement the schemes, staff resource to progress them and of course the political will to support the implementation.

[Planner1]

15 hours ago, Litotes said:

But its not about putting them off, its about actively encouraging them - something the council don't seem to do.

I think you will find that Councils across the land are looking to discourage people from coming into city centres by car. It is undesirable for many reasons, particularly now a lot of people live in city centres.

 

Parking availability and price  are part of the toolkit of measures for demand management.

 

The common view is that paying for parking does not put people off coming to a city centre. The overall "offer"  of the place is the deciding factor on whether people want to come or not. Most drivers expect to pay to park if they are coming into a city centre, so offering free parking isn't a major factor in attracting people to a city centre. The businesses in the city centre understand this.

 

Like I said before, if someone is put off from coming because they have to pay £2 to park for 4 hours (ie the price of half a pint of beer) how much are they actually going to spend on a visit and are they actually the folk the businesses and the Council want to attract? 

[*_ash_*]

This is interesting that I just read in the taxi forum, that someone found, from 2018.

 

It's the 'Sheffield Pharmaceutical Needs Assessment 2018-21'

 

Link: http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/documents/s30248/4 - SheffieldPNA_2018_FINAL March 2018.pdf

 

Since this is pdf and might put you off reading...

 

Look at page 19 of 46 : 4.2.5 Respiratory Disease

 

 

 

 

[*_ash_*]

On 28/01/2020 at 20:33, *_ash_* said:

In the taxi forum, we have an email (dated 27th Jan) saying ''[...] the consultation responses should be published with this week or next [...]''

 

 

 

looking forward to this!

 

 

Now March.

 

Response today at the council meeting: It will be this week or next. (I also think I heard that 4 in 5 agree with it)

 

-

 

 

Lee Ward, Chairman, ALPHA (taxi trade rep), had a 3 min speech at general council meeting:

 

 

----

The consultation on Sheffield’s Clean Air Zone closed on the 25th of August 2019, some 27 weeks ago.

The Taxi and Private Hire industry had a 72% response to the survey.

In just 51 week the Clean Air Zone is planned to become active which will have a detrimental effect on the Taxi and Private Hire trade because as it currently stands we are the only vehicles in Sheffield that will not be allowed to use Euro 6 diesel vehicles without charge if we go ON or INSIDE the inner ring road.

EVERY other town and City in the UK who have introduced or plan to introduce a Clean Air Zone have selected INSIDE the ring road, only Sheffield have chosen for the zone to be ON it.

EVERY other Town and City in the UK have made the Taxi and Private Hire vehicles exempt if they have a Euro 6 engine.

The lack of information coming forward from Sheffield City Council has already forced 132 of the 857 Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles to not renew, that’s 15% less vehicles available for the disabled public to go about their day to day business.

There are literally hundreds of Private Hire Vehicles waiting to upgrade to an affordable and cleaner vehicle but cannot do so without the knowledge of their investment being suitable.

The current proposals that this industry faces will decimate the trade and we predict around one thousand five hundred drivers will be forced to leave what is an integral part of Sheffield’s public transport system.

Can South Yorkshire Police afford to ensure the safety of the public on a Saturday night with 50% of the trade who take the revellers home absent?

Should we ask the trade to prove this point if need be?

This authority has been charged with cleaning the air as soon as possible, and we all want that, for ourselves, our children and our children’s children.

But how can targeting our trade that is just 4% of Sheffield’s traffic which produces 2% of Sheffield air pollution provide cleaner air in the shortest time possible?

We have been given no evidence to convince us that this decision is political and not environmental.

The trade requests politely that the consultation responses are published immediately and that the individual sole traders are given as much time as possible to enable them to make a financial business plan that is viable and sustainable or seek employment in another industry.

And…

That the members of this council stand by the seven pillars of their code of conduct, which are…

Selflessness

Integrity

Objectivity

Accountability

Openness

Honesty and Leadership

That true scrutiny is given to the proposed exclusion of our trade to the use of Euro 6 engines.

And that clear and transparent direction is given to the three thousand licensed drivers of our trade.

To quote Mahatma Gandhi…

In the democracy which I have envisaged, a democracy established by non-violence, there will be equal freedom for all.

Everybody will be his own master. It is to join a struggle for such democracy that I invite you today.

----

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by *_ash_*