Sheffield Clean Air Zone

[*_ash_*]

4 minutes ago, ads36 said:

It seems that taxi drivers have 2 choices :

 

A) do nothing, and spend £200/month on the charges.

 

B) get a new car. I suggested a Tesla as it's most expensive one I could think of, and the last time I looked, you could lease one for £800/month.

 

The difference between A and B is £600/month.

 

Of course, other cheaper cars that won't incur a charge are available, and if the owner was paying attention, they'd have seen this coming years ago, and bought one already.

 

I've already said numerous times that leasing companies* won't let you plate them as taxis. And why not? Let's face it, when you give it back it's worthless. No hiding it was a taxi as it shows as having 2 MoTs per year, and that obviously leads the next buyer to ask why?!

 

(*I could bore you with more info, because someone will say this IS possible now).

 

And insurance is also a big issue too.

 

I'm not sure why you have such an attitude with this.

 

Years ago they hadn't worked out which cars they were going to charge. All the other cities are allowing Euro6 but not Sheffield (probably because most are this now, certainly all newly plated ones for nearly 2 years, and they won't get any money out of them)

 

-

 

I've already looked and can't find, and if you can't find a  LEASE Tesla for 800 a month that also can be plated and insured as hire and reward, then we can end this part of the discussion, because it's irrelevant.

If this was possible, I can tell you that probably most rent/buyers would go for it, as it would only be about 20 a week more than now to just on current car rent+CAZ, and there would be some savings in fuel.

Tips would be good in this too, certainly at first. I would see what others were getting with the ranges are first. I would probably do this, if it looked better, because as you say the, you save some on fuel.  Also, (I don't know the answer to this, only just thought of it) - last few weeks I've ran my air con a lot of the time as customers don't like boiling cars any more than I do... interesting to see what air con does to the range!

 

So if you can't find a lease company that basically can be a PHV AND £800 / month, then share, and I'll save Lee and the others trying to work on a fairer deal (i.e. let us use Euro6) hundreds of hours, because I think people would go for it.

 

 

[ads36]

55 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

I'm not sure why you have such an attitude with this.

I really didn’t mean to go off on one, I’m sorry if I’ve wound you up, it wasn’t deliberate.

 

it seems to me that we’ve been talking about air pollution for decades, none of this is news. Or should come as a shock. We have to do something, and, if it’s going to work, it’s got to cause some change in behaviour.

 

at the moment, this is only a consultation, I wouldn’t be surprised if the final draft includes the latest ice vehicles. That way, scc appear tough on pollution during the draft, and then avoid too many upset taxi drivers when it’s implemented.

 

as you say, the economics of an electric vehicle are quite close to working, the caz charge is there to nudge it a little further.

 

and you mention air-con, I wonder what that does to battery range?

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by ads36

[*_ash_*]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

1. I really didn’t mean to go off on one, I’m sorry if I’ve wound you up, it wasn’t deliberate.

 

2. it seems to me that we’ve been talking about air pollution for decades, none of this is news. Or should come as a shock. We have to do something, and, if it’s going to work, it’s got to cause some change in behaviour.

 

3. at the moment, this is only a consultation, I wouldn’t be surprised if the final draft includes the latest ice vehicles. That way, scc appear tough on pollution during the draft, and then avoid too many upset taxi drivers when it’s implemented.

 

4. as you say, the economics of an electric vehicle are quite close to working, the caz charge is there to nudge it a little further.

 

5. and you mention air-con, I wonder what that does to battery range?

 

 

numbered as not worked quotes out yet.

 

1. Not wound me up at all.

 

2. That's the entire thing for me. The SCC own figures show that roughly 50% is caused by transport (includes the trains and M1, but the figures for percentages don't include these 2 factors as far as I can see). And that 19% of this 50% is HGV/LGV/BUS/TAXI.

 

Taxi makes up 3% in that 19%. So we make up 1.5% of the total in these figures. By the pages own figures, pollution kills 500 per year in Sheffield, and there are about 4000 taxis (PHV, Hack and OOTs) so we are all killing 0.004% of a person per year. In the stats the rest of the public contribute the most towards the deaths, so collectively you are all more killers than me! (joking aside though) - I don't like the public to be told in this loaded online pamphlet that I'm somehow responsible for the deaths of the poor children.

 

Have you seen the wording on the page?

The way you write, I don't think you've read it: MAIN TEXT!!

 

Quote

Air pollution is a serious issue. Living alongside a busy road carries the same risk as passively smoking 10 cigarettes a day. Air pollution can permanently damage children's lungs.

Sheffield currently has illegal levels of air pollution. We have to take action now.

 

i, Air pollution is serious - no ****!

ii. Living alongside a busy road carries same risk as smoking 10 a day - I can't choose where people decide/ 'or forced' to live and what has this got to do with charging me £10 per day?

iii. Children - must have been written by the same people as who writes the Labour candidates on QT

iv. Yes take action but something that works!

v. Do you think charging a poor bloke £10 a day is going to fix climate change and repair children's lungs?!

vi. It's a ****ing joke. The whole thing is so obviously getting the public to pay, but it's dressed up in usual political slant, and in this case, they are just getting it up and running by picking on people who no ones give a toss about, that's the truth. If they were planning ALL cars to charge (and either taxis or not) this thread would now be into part 2! - do you not agree?

 

 

 

If you can't see why I'm ****** off at being charged £70 a week in tax when the rest of the population makes up the other 48.5%, then I'd think you were just anti-taxi (like most people tbf).  see below

 

3. I have 2 points on this. And they are important and link to earlier points...

 

3.1 We all hope they allow E6 vehicles, that's all the trade is asking for.  I don't think they'll move though as I said, there's no money in it otherwise.

3.2 see above, if they do allow E6 vehicles (they are allowing E6 LGV btw! but not E6 taxis), it's not good news for the public, as they will move in on you lot next... as per question 19. By 19, most people have clicked on enough 'STRONGLY AGREE' to all the loaded questions, and Planner1 will be able to come in here in a few years and tell you that 'YOU VOTED FOR IT'. I of course won't say I told you so. I'd doing it the other way around, I'm telling you now, then when it happens I can be disappointed that as usual no one listens, no one wins.

 

 

4. The nudge is more a push you over with a large instrument

 

5. Well as soon as I turn on my aircon, the engine starts. So that would give me an idea that in an electric car, this isn't a viable option for a taxi.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by *_ash_*
typos, but loads, so gave up, you get the gist

[Cyclone]

6 hours ago, ads36 said:

how much do you spend on diesel?

 

how much do you spend on your current car finance? (loan or savings for next car)

 

here's the point : electric cars sound expensive, but then the running costs are lower. the economics aren't anywhere near as bad as the headline ticket price would suggest.

THEY AREN'T ANY USE.  If they can only drive for an hour.  The cost of that hour is irrelevant, you can't have your taxi plugged in for 30 minutes out of every hour when you want to be working.

[*_ash_*]

Quote

To help support people who depend on a vehicle for their livelihood, we are proposing  range of support packages.

from the main page too.

 

The support packages are offering LPG conversion which 90% aren't able to do, and the only recognised workshop is in Birmingham. 1 workshop does this. Most of the ones able to do this are old vehicles and soon to be replaced anyway.

[Nightbird]

2 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

THEY AREN'T ANY USE.  If they can only drive for an hour.  The cost of that hour is irrelevant, you can't have your taxi plugged in for 30 minutes out of every hour when you want to be working.

Electric cars lasting only for an hour is an out of date falsism; you could easily do a typical commute in an electric car nowadays. The problem is the lack of charging point infrastructure. The government needs to be brave and help accelerate the change, but the cultural and societal transition isn't going to be  smooth, but it needs to be done. 

[Cyclone]

1 minute ago, Nightbird said:

Electric cars lasting only for an hour is an out of date falsism; you could easily do a typical commute in an electric car nowadays. The problem is the lack of charging point infrastructure. The government needs to be brave and help accelerate the change, but the cultural and societal transition isn't going to be  smooth, but it needs to be done. 

We aren't talking about a "typical commute", we're talking about them being taxis....  They drive around for hours at a time, in an inefficient stop start pattern, often in traffic.  I doubt that a Tesla would manage 200 miles in that fashion.  Perhaps Ash could tell us how far he typically drives in a day?

[*_ash_*]

10 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

THEY AREN'T ANY USE.  If they can only drive for an hour.  The cost of that hour is irrelevant, you can't have your taxi plugged in for 30 minutes out of every hour when you want to be working.

Thank goodness some more sense!

 

The LEVC really is the answer. It's not too different to pruis type thing.

 

It's obviously better, shown by how much they cost... but not allowing a small petrol engine to run the car when the batteries are low, is just nonsense. How can the council or anyone here with any sense see how impractical electric only is!

 

p.s. if you ever get a chance, take a ride in one of the 2 LEVCs in Sheffield. It's worth it just to try it. I got lucky and caught one a few months back, (the VXV one) and I knew the driver. He showed me its acceleration, - f - me, you wouldn't believe it! The LEVC is absolutely beautiful machine. Absolute luxury for taxi. However, it chuffin should be at that price! If you hail VXV ask the driver anything, he's a top bloke. (I don't know the guy in the other one, but I'm sure he's used to questions about it too)

 

 

[*_ash_*]

46 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

We aren't talking about a "typical commute", we're talking about them being taxis....  They drive around for hours at a time, in an inefficient stop start pattern, often in traffic.  I doubt that a Tesla would manage 200 miles in that fashion.  Perhaps Ash could tell us how far he typically drives in a day?

bold: I was going to respond  in answer to the other member, but you really this summed it up in one sentence.

 

to add to the other member: (nightbird)

 

If everyone who just goes to work and back, or takes kids to school or shops and back etc.  buys an electric vehicle it would be fine,  and would remove upto the 31% of Sheffield's pollution that transport other than HGV/LGV/BUS/TAXI causes. (using SCC figures)

 

-

 

Underlined - Difficult to say Cyclone, as mileage is not the only factor. I work in an area generally that is hilly. So range on an electric I can only go on what I've been told. Like I said the LEVC can't do much more than 50 without the engine kicking in, if going up hills.

 

Today I did none! In here all day and working on this.

 

A typical day might be 100 miles of driving. My average speed on the insignia says in the last 38k miles, I've averaged 13.8 mph. So much of it is standing traffic, or slow driving. At night also requires lights of course.  In day sometimes requires air con.

 

But then you never know from day to day. Though by no means typical, in fact, one of most bizarre jobs I've ever done. I got a job in Sheffield last friday, it was from Sheffield>Grimsby>West Ham>Wembley, then home. I did it all on one as well and was well over 400 miles.  And the way it happened meant even if I had 200 range would have been stranded. They kept extending the run. Initially the job was Sheffield to Doncaster, which I might have taken if I knew I had range.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by *_ash_*

[Planner1]

11 hours ago, geared said:

 

The story is the same in many places, Leeds is far worse, all they've got is a load of smelly buses that no-one wants anyway.

Well, they’ve got better park and ride facilities than we have. They have two large bus based park and ride sites and another in development. They also have a lot of rail based park and ride sites with more on the way. 

 

They haven’t got a tram system, but it isn’t for want of trying. They’ve tried to get a tram and a trolleybus in recent years. They are still looking to get some form of Mass Transit system in place, but these things take years to develop.

 

Leeds Council have recently said that they want to be a carbon neutral city by 2030, so they are going to have to get pretty radical with transport emissions to do that.