Sheffield Bus Network Changes - September 2019

[BigAl1]

of course communication is a major problem with bus changes and this is particularly true for the infrequent users and the PTE could do far more if they were to have a customer focus.

 

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Reducing from every 10 mins to 15 mins - they were never on time any way, so does this mean A) no difference, or B) even worse?

The answer depends on why they were never on time and if the buses and drivers that failed to deliver the 10 minute frequency are used in a proactive way to try and ensure a better timetable (unlikely) or are simply transferred elsewhere leaving the fundamental problem unaddressed (more likely)

 

However I would say that tweaking the service in response to consumer demand and operational issues is a valid exercise BUT only if properly managed and communicated

 

[Andy C]

6 hours ago, petcharlie said:

Andy C You do not have to explain all the in's and outs to me I drove buses for 20 years in Sheffield and went on to work for the P.T.E.for another 8 years in Exchange St but just talking to passengers it is clear they are getting so confused at changes that happen so frequently and the fares might be cheaper than other parts of the country but if you have a couple of kids and the parents you are talking of a lot of cash in fares by the time you arrive back home.I realise Thatcher and the transport minister who was called Wrigley ruined our once fabulous transport system and I am not having a go at the P.T.E but I am telling it the way the public see it.The then Government who consisted of people who never used a bus knew exactly what they were doing ruining the Norths transport service because London was allowed to carry on running their service without interference from central Government and the result is they are making money because all their buses are running around full by running them on a similar basis to how we used to run ours.

                 With out customers (PASSENGERS)they are always going to struggle you have to make the product you are supplying affordable and consistent or as before run it as a service as it was years ago .You never know you might get some passengers on the buses unlike now where you see them with no one on them.I do realise it would take a major shift in national government thinking but surely even the government are not thick enough to understand that at present it is not working.They just have to look at how the London transport example who run things the old fashion way works and the rest of the country's way of working is not the example we should adopt.In this day and age of trying to cut pollution it is vital we have a good transport policy which is a proper alternative to the car and that means affordable and regular service with out all the confusion of altering services and amalgamating routes every six months.Humans are a creature of habit and like consistency .

London's buses required a HUGE taxpayer subsidy to operate the way it does, the government have cut off much of the funding and cuts are being forced now.

 

In the rest of the country including Sheffield the majority of services are run commercially at the operators risk, it is just buses like evening/rural/community services that operate with public funding.

 

What is really missing is the public sector (ie council) fully playing their part in the bus partnership - providing and enforcing priority measures for buses and trams, encouraging use of park & ride or other public transport facilities rather than allowing and encouraging numerous City Centre car parks to be built, promoting the bus and tram network etc etc.  

 

If the buses weren't getting stuck in the same traffic jams as the cars and were able to offer consistent, reliable and competitive journey times then not only would the service be more attractive but the same number of buses could be used to provide a more frequent service and other improvements rather than having to reduce the frequency to allow for all the buses being stuck in traffic jams.

 

Unfortunately the poltiticans are vocal and keen for the private businesses providing the services to invest millions in new buses with greener engines, free Wi-Fi and comfy seats AND offer very reasonable ticket prices but they don't seem so keen on matching that by investing in public transport infrastructure themselves such as more bus friendly roads, better bus stops and funding for improved non commercial routes.

 

High operating costs, low fares and public funding cuts from a government with an austerity policy - the sums don't add up.

 

to remind, details of all the changes are on this link: https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/servicechanges/

 

Additionally information on routes operated by First: https://www.firstgroup.com/south-yorkshire/news-and-service-updates/planned-changes/september-service-changes

 

And Stagecoach: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-updates/serviceupdatesarticle?SituationId=ID-14/08/2018-14:37:16:953

 

10 hours ago, Funky_Gibbon said:

Could it be?... Are they actually going to introduce a route change for Wincobank that actually benefits me? Wait... wait... don't jinx it Funky... they could still route the damn things to only go on the far side of the hill or make the pre 7:20am buses avoid the area for no logical reason whatsoever just like last time.

looking at routes that currently serve Wincobank:

 

3/3a - to become 95/95a and run cross city to Walkley instead of Nether Edge.

36 - evening and Sunday service withdrawn between Sheffield Centre and Meadowhall due to insufficient demand.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Andy C

[Fudbeer]

Andy is on the money as usual.

 

As a regular visitor to London their bus service is superb but it is heavily subsidised,

 

They are also very forward thinking with the Oyster card and no cash rule speeding boarding.

 

Some but not all services in Sheffield are very good I use the 86 every week and its nearly always on time and they have clean and many new busses however they are often nearly empty when I use them.

 

Many things need to change to get people who have a choice of car or bus to leave the car at home.Would take the bus all the time if I worked at peak times as it is quick and regular but when I work till late am not prepared to wait for half an hour in all weathers when the traffic is light and its easier to take the car.

 

Sorry to see the 86 going to first on Sundays and evenings as its a great service and more reliable than first in my experience.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Fudbeer

[Funky_Gibbon]

23 hours ago, Fudbeer said:

Such a shame to see the decline of our once great bus service.With more and more using cars and the roads getting ridiculously congested there seems no end to it.Its a sad fact that many times when using the bus in the early evening there are often only a few passengers on or even just me sometimes.Clearly not worth them running these services.

But that's exactly why these services should be run as a subsidised public services and not as a business. I didn't start getting taxis all the time because I want to, I started because someone decided that the route through the area where I live wasn't profitable enough to run before 7am or after 9pm and that between those times it should go on a route that took it through half of Sheffield and turned a 30 minute journey into an hour long journey from home to workplace. There might be great business reasons for doing that and putting those buses on 'profitable' routes but it causes the very lack of passengers they say justifies cutting back the service. Turning parts of the city into dead zones that lack a public transport option that satisfies the social/work needs of the population of that area just creates more congestion and more pollution as people are forced into cars.

[Andy C]

2 hours ago, Funky_Gibbon said:

But that's exactly why these services should be run as a subsidised public services and not as a business. I didn't start getting taxis all the time because I want to, I started because someone decided that the route through the area where I live wasn't profitable enough to run before 7am or after 9pm and that between those times it should go on a route that took it through half of Sheffield and turned a 30 minute journey into an hour long journey from home to workplace. There might be great business reasons for doing that and putting those buses on 'profitable' routes but it causes the very lack of passengers they say justifies cutting back the service. Turning parts of the city into dead zones that lack a public transport option that satisfies the social/work needs of the population of that area just creates more congestion and more pollution as people are forced into cars.

It is the public sectors failings that are causing the actual problems though - council needs to provide congestion free routes for the buses.

 

The longer the journey the less frequency can be provided with the same number of buses. As the journey gets longer and less reliable then less people use the buses causing more congestion which makes the journey time longer and it all goes into a vicious circle of decline. Routes get merged to still provide a reasonable level of service with the resource available.

 

To fix the problems the council needs to act and stop pandering to the "council isn't car friendly" brigade. More bus priority measures and proper enforcement of existing ones needed.

 

If the council aren't prepared to act, then the council running the buses wouldn't make any difference. Except it would be the taxpayer losing money rather than a private business.

 

Of course, the council is limited in what they can do these days in that they are suffering more and more funding cuts thanks to the Conservative government's austerity policy which is also damaging the economy (less employment means less commuters on the buses of course).

Edited July 24, 2019 by Andy C

[RollingJ]

Excellent response, @Andy C👍

[Michael_N]

12 hours ago, Andy C said:

It is the public sectors failings that are causing the actual problems though - council needs to provide congestion free routes for the buses.

 

The longer the journey the less frequency can be provided with the same number of buses. As the journey gets longer and less reliable then less people use the buses causing more congestion which makes the journey time longer and it all goes into a vicious circle of decline. Routes get merged to still provide a reasonable level of service with the resource available.

 

To fix the problems the council needs to act and stop pandering to the "council isn't car friendly" brigade. More bus priority measures and proper enforcement of existing ones needed.

 

If the council aren't prepared to act, then the council running the buses wouldn't make any difference. Except it would be the taxpayer losing money rather than a private business.

 

Of course, the council is limited in what they can do these days in that they are suffering more and more funding cuts thanks to the Conservative government's austerity policy which is also damaging the economy (less employment means less commuters on the buses of course).

Perfectly summed up Andy. You only have to look at the mess in London to see that even with public subsidy, the bus Network is failing and losing passengers and revenue due to congestion.

[Andy C]

A reminder the 1st September changes are listed here: https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/servicechanges/

 

Note in addition to that there are some City Centre route changes already implemented due to the permanent closure of Castlegate as part of the Grey-to-Green regeneration scheme - see https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/disruptions.aspx

[verydull]

Sorry to bother you Andy but I don't suppose you know if there is a map of all the bus stop names. The new stops for the 56 and so forthe are only bus stop numbers so pretty useless unless you know where they are

[Andy C]

20 hours ago, verydull said:

Sorry to bother you Andy but I don't suppose you know if there is a map of all the bus stop names. The new stops for the 56 and so forthe are only bus stop numbers so pretty useless unless you know where they are

They're on the network map you can download here: https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/SheffieldBusNetworkMap/

 

Alternatively search for the bus stop on the live next departures facility https://tsy.yorkshiretravel.net/lts/#/liveDepartures