Sheffield Bus Network Changes - September 2019

[Guest busdriver1]

On 25/09/2019 at 01:20, catmiss said:

Sorry if I’m repeating myself BUT I really believe that some of the changes to unprofitable routes are designed to deter customers thus providing evidence that the service is not required and top of the list for cuts next review.  I appreciate funding issues but the destruction of public transport across the city is not only at odds with the green agenda but may well bite the powers that be on the bum at the next election. 

Your reasoning is understandable but not quite right. SYPTE who oversee these tendered services and are very good at it - ON PAPER.

The problem is, most of these people are not and never have been bus users and look at services purely as a numbers game.

Area X needs a service so divert serve xxx to serve that area = problem solved. 

The fact that the resulting service is far too long and passes through several know pinch points never even cracks the top 10 because they dont understand things like that.

My area suffered from exactly the same problem, this was not actually an SYPTE **** up, this was a First one, but, as their staff go on the same courses to learn how to plan services it is to be expected.

The service in my area does not now exist as when Rotherham Depot closed it was too difficult to operate it reliably from Sheffield so it was dumbed down to the point where it was even less use than before. This was done by missing out certain areas. (The ones where people actually used it). 

The bus industry is populated by number crunchers who would not be able to pick out a bus in an identity parade and certainly have never been on one.

[Retro Queen]

4 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

Your reasoning is understandable but not quite right. SYPTE who oversee these tendered services and are very good at it - ON PAPER.

The problem is, most of these people are not and never have been bus users and look at services purely as a numbers game.

Area X needs a service so divert serve xxx to serve that area = problem solved. 

The fact that the resulting service is far too long and passes through several know pinch points never even cracks the top 10 because they dont understand things like that.

My area suffered from exactly the same problem, this was not actually an SYPTE **** up, this was a First one, but, as their staff go on the same courses to learn how to plan services it is to be expected.

The service in my area does not now exist as when Rotherham Depot closed it was too difficult to operate it reliably from Sheffield so it was dumbed down to the point where it was even less use than before. This was done by missing out certain areas. (The ones where people actually used it). 

The bus industry is populated by number crunchers who would not be able to pick out a bus in an identity parade and certainly have never been on one.

Can I just ask - how do you go on with no bus service at all in your area?

[Guest busdriver1]

11 hours ago, Retro Queen said:

Can I just ask - how do you go on with no bus service at all in your area?

I use my car

[Retro Queen]

7 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

I use my car

I don't drive so have to put up with the crap bus service

[Andy C]

On 22/09/2019 at 23:14, Ms Macbeth said:

Yes, thats just this weekend though. These cross city services all fall foul of similar problems.      52as regularly come in pairs,  and the tracker continually shows buses that never appear. A young woman in Hillsborough waited in vain for a 135  that showed as 'due' on the tracker for the 20 mins I waited for my 52a bus, and she'd been there ages before me.  At least I can use the tram.

these are all problems caused by traffic congestion that the bus operators can do nothing about.

 

It won't change until the council take responsibility, tackle traffic congestion, get more bus priority measures in and properly enforce the ones that are already there. Unfortunately there is a political culture in Sheffield where councilors want to be seen to be car friendly - and its much cheaper & easier to simply criticise the private bus companies.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Andy C

[Michael_N]

6 hours ago, Andy C said:

these are all problems caused by traffic congestion that the bus operators can do nothing about.

 

It won't change until the council take responsibility, tackle traffic congestion, get more bus priority measures in and properly enforce the ones that are already there. Unfortunately there is a political culture in Sheffield where councilors want to be seen to be car friendly - and its much cheaper & easier to simply criticise the private bus companies.

No, bus companies can do something about it. It happens in other cities where correct scheduling and increasing the vehicles at peak times take place. First South Yorkshire are too busy penny pinching at the minute.

 

Stagecoach are much better at scheduling their services, indeed they give their drivers around 6 minutes on the 88 to catch up in town, where as First generally just give 2 mins on both the 81/82 and 75/76 etc. 

 

More realistic and better scheduling would would be a start. That way services would become more reliable and therefore people would start using the services more if they actually turned up when they were supposed to!!!

[Ms Macbeth]

14 hours ago, Andy C said:

these are all problems caused by traffic congestion that the bus operators can do nothing about.

 

It won't change until the council take responsibility, tackle traffic congestion, get more bus priority measures in and properly enforce the ones that are already there. Unfortunately there is a political culture in Sheffield where councilors want to be seen to be car friendly - and its much cheaper & easier to simply criticise the private bus companies.

Fair enough, I understand that point although people berate SCC for being unfriendly to motorists.  But, when we had local bus services (13/14,  then S6/S6A)  we could rely on them.  Now, people travelling to Wisewood/Loxley on the 52a (which we were assured was the replacement service) are relying on buses that start in Woodhouse, and once they get through town, have to get through Broomhill, Crookes and Hillsborough.   It wasn't so bad when Stagecoach ran that route, but they now only run the 52 which terminates at Crookes.    

Edited September 29, 2019 by Ms Macbeth

[Andy C]

9 hours ago, Michael_N said:

No, bus companies can do something about it. It happens in other cities where correct scheduling and increasing the vehicles at peak times take place. First South Yorkshire are too busy penny pinching at the minute.

 

Stagecoach are much better at scheduling their services, indeed they give their drivers around 6 minutes on the 88 to catch up in town, where as First generally just give 2 mins on both the 81/82 and 75/76 etc. 

 

More realistic and better scheduling would would be a start. That way services would become more reliable and therefore people would start using the services more if they actually turned up when they were supposed to!!!

All the bus companies have been doing that for a few years now - adding extra minutes running time to reflect being stuck in traffic longer. The trouble is they've done it so many times now the journey times have become so long some people have stopped using those buses, the traffic has got worse and even longer journeys are required....

 

When the journey gets longer, if you want to achieve the same frequency of service, you need to add more buses to the system. That means increasing the fleet, employing more drivers and facing more maintenance costs. There is no increase in revenue in return for putting those extra buses on and at the current ticket prices operators are already working on wafer thin margins. Add in the poor reimbursement levels for concessionary pass use and you can see why we are at the point where instead of putting more vehicles out there they are reducing the frequency or merging routes - its getting to the point where it will start bankrupting bus companies.

 

When it comes to cross city services, don't forget that isn't always just about operational efficiency/convenience, it is often down to passenger demand - especially if the route passes a hospital. In the case of 81/82 There are people from Ecclesall/Banner Cross areas who want to visit Kelham Island or Hillsborough and there are people from the Stannington/Hillsborough end travelling to Moorfoot and Ecclesall Road. None of the passengers like to find themselves sat on a stationary bus in town for ages.

1 hour ago, Ms Macbeth said:

Fair enough, I understand that point although people berate SCC for being unfriendly to motorists.  But, when we had local bus services (13/14,  then S6/S6A)  we could rely on them.  Now, people travelling to Wisewood/Loxley on the 52a (which we were assured was the replacement service) are relying on buses that start in Woodhouse, and once they get through town, have to get through Broomhill, Crookes and Hillsborough.   It wasn't so bad when Stagecoach ran that route, but they now only run the 52 which terminates at Crookes.    

It has been a Sheffield thing for years - people keep berating the council so they make more effort to be seen as car friendly. Unfortunately people won't accept that in a city it is unreasonable to expect to be allowed to have complete freedom to drive or park anywhere you want and sod anyone else.

 

There is still a local bus in the form of the Powells 61/62 from Hillsborough Interchange to Bradfield via Loxley or Stannington.

 

Such buses have to be subsidised by SYPTE as they aren't commercially viable and like most public sector organisations have faced budget cuts as part of government austerity policy and therefore can't afford to fund as much.

 

That said it does still provide some opportunity should there be a problem with the 52a or 81/82 to join that little bus down to Hillsborough and get a tram into town instead.

 

Buy a Citywide pass and you have the freedom to get any bus or tram in the city.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Andy C

[Ms Macbeth]

I have a senior pass, so the cost isn't an issue for me as it would be for younger people who have to pay.   The issue is more about reliability.  I use the TSY tracker, and that, like the electronic signs on bus stops (none in Hillsborough so far), regularly show a bus to be on its way, then due, then it just disappears.   I'm not clear how that works!   The 61/62  is pretty reliable,  if only  an hourly service in each direction.

[catmiss]

Friends have told me that there is going to be a congestion charge applied to Sheffield City Centre which will also be applied to busses. Is this true?