Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

[crookesjoe]

This thread needs locking and the key thrown away forever.

 

There is no point debating Brexit anymore, it just leaves everyone stressed out or bored to death. 

 

Nothing positive ever happens from this discussion. Toxic and tiring.

[L00b]

On 6 December 2019 at 23:44, Car Boot said:

If cheaper and less cumbersome continental holidays are the very best that the EU Patriarchy has to offer the British worker, then we need to Leave. No wonder Remain couldn't persuade us that the EU capitalist club benefits all.

 

Say NO to austerity - whether from Britain OR Brussels!

 

Repeal anti-trade union EU court rulings NOW!

Oh it's far, very far from the "very best", as you put it: it is a small advantage amongst the hundreds and thousands of other such small advantages enjoyed by all EU28 citizens equally.

 

Of course, these notional 'British workers' reading your comment will be heartened to see how you hard Brexit-pushing types apparently care for the freedom of holidaying choice and destination, that they have been enjoying for the past few decades. 

 

Say NO to austerity, says CarBoot : stop spending your hard earned on foreign holidays!

 

(logic optional...it is a CarBoot argument, after all)

On 8 December 2019 at 09:29, crookesjoe said:

This thread needs locking and the key thrown away forever.

 

There is no point debating Brexit anymore, it just leaves everyone stressed out or bored to death. 

 

Nothing positive ever happens from this discussion. Toxic and tiring.

You don't have to click and read it, you know. Nor to post in it.

 

The toxicity of Brexit to the UK is quite entertaining, and as far from boring or tiring as one could get, from a political point of view: the daily answer to "how low Brexiteers will go?" (i.e. ever lower for over 3 years on the trot now) never ceases to amaze, as does the enduring gullibility (or apathy - same difference in practice) of the British public.

 

Case in point: today's Times evangelising Johnson's BNP-worthy immigrant-bashing comments, like it's 2016 all over again. 

 

Don't worry, the EU27 won't forget, when the times come to reciprocate Tory immigration policies on the 1.6m Brits in the EU. I hope (but doubt) that your NHS will still be in a condition  to cope with all the Brexoded geriatrics from the Costas. Cheap repo'd villas for us, massive care bills for you: sounds fair 

Edited December 9, 2019 by L00b

[apelike]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

Don't worry, the EU27 won't forget, when the times come to reciprocate Tory immigration policies on the 1.6m Brits in the EU. I hope (but doubt) that your NHS will still be in a condition  to cope with all the Brexoded geriatrics from the Costas. Cheap repo'd villas for us, massive care bills for you: sounds fair 

Not sure about the EU bu it seems Spain does not agree with you:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenpope/2019/03/02/spain-shows-sense-in-dealing-with-british-expatriates/#37b24dcc1a09

[L00b]

15 minutes ago, apelike said:

Not sure about the EU bu it seems Spain does not agree with you:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenpope/2019/03/02/spain-shows-sense-in-dealing-with-british-expatriates/#37b24dcc1a09

I think you'll find (when you update your personal knowledge from, apparently, 9 months ago) that they do:

 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/23/inenglish/1569214269_989612.html

 

Hardly a surprise: the EU27 have been nothing if not consistent, in their common and individual messaging to the UK, about the use of the adjective 'reciprocal' where future immigration measures are concerned. You treat EU27inUK like ****, so will the EU27 treat resident Brits - exactly the same.

 

Worryingly for Brits in the EU27, your ex- (and future-) head of government's signalling today, is pretty unequivocal in that respect.

 

Let's not do the "Mercedes and Audi to the rescue" argument again, in respect of Brit OAPs on the Costas, eh? You've seen how long you've had to wait on the Germans, and yet they're nothing if not punctual 

Edited December 9, 2019 by L00b

[apelike]

4 minutes ago, L00b said:

I think you'll find (when you update your personal knowledge from, apparently, 9 months ago) that they do:

 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/23/inenglish/1569214269_989612.html

So Spain has passed a Royal decree guaranteeing British rights but also wants the UK to reciprocate in kind which is basically the same stance as in that 9 month old article! That is not the same as kicking them out which you seem to be suggesting.

[L00b]

58 minutes ago, apelike said:

So Spain has passed a Royal decree guaranteeing British rights but also wants the UK to reciprocate in kind which is basically the same stance as in that 9 month old article! That is not the same as kicking them out which you seem to be suggesting.

Quite, since "kicking them out" is your imperfect understanding of my post: Spain, like most of the other EU26 member states, has enacted domestic legislation so that resident Brits won't turn into illegal immigrants overnight come-what-flavour-of-Brexit-may. And, still like most of the other EU26 member states, Spain has been fairly generous with it too.

 

But then, in full application of this basic reciprocity principle, Spain has asked the UK to reciprocate its legislation in respect of Spanish (EU27) nationals in the UK.

 

Which the UK has yet to do, in its withdrawal legislation.

 

If the UK should not reciprocate, Spain won't bat an eyelid at trimming the provisions of this Royal Decree, to mirror what the UK does (or fails to do, as the case may be). So says the ElPais article (which, rather gently I think, does not bring Gib' into this equation - it should have).

 

Reciprocity. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

 

What is more difficult to understand (for many), is what this curtailing can mean in practice, for the tens of thousands of Brit retirees in Spain (and France, elsewhere too in smaller numbers), who are not wallowing in pension cash and assets: life gets real expensive real quick for non-EU immigrants in Spain (likewise in other EU26 member states) who need to buy and renew visas and healthcare cover every year.

 

Quickly, to the point where they cannot afford to stay there anymore (tons of testimonies with relevant domestic legislation, data and calculations, long available from many national Brit immigrant groups/associations). Now, where do you think they're going to rock up to?

 

So, today, Boris claimed that the UK has had enough of EU immigrants treating the UK like their home. It's legitimate to expect policies to match, in case of electoral success for the Conservatives. 

 

Reciprocity. It's not a difficult concept to understand 

Edited December 9, 2019 by L00b

[Car Boot]

When the next financial crisis happens the EU overlords will impose economic austerity on its member states to a far greater degree than anything we here in the UK have experienced.

 

NO to austerity - whether it comes from Brussels OR Britain.

[Longcol]

4 hours ago, Car Boot said:

When the next financial crisis happens the EU overlords will impose economic austerity on its member states to a far greater degree than anything we here in the UK have experienced.

 

NO to austerity - whether it comes from Brussels OR Britain.

Who are these "EU overlords" if not representatives of member states?

 

The UK's austerity is down to the Tories, not the EU. 

[apelike]

8 hours ago, L00b said:

Reciprocity. It's not a difficult concept to understand 

I agree but I think we will have to wait and see exactly how it unfolds especially with Spain as they are set to lose a great deal and by all accounts it could push them into a bit of a recession.

Edited December 9, 2019 by apelike

[Pettytom]

38 minutes ago, apelike said:

I agree but I think we will have to wait and see exactly how it unfolds especially with Spain as they are set to lose a great deal and by all accounts it could push them into a bit of a recession.

They aren’t the only ones. 
 

A disorderly Brexit is forecast to cost us up to 6% of GDP. A suggestion that you were reluctant to accept not so very long ago.