General Election 2019 - Results Thread.

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, Albert the Cat said:

There is a reason why they are in the lower classes with limited education. This is reality and people need to understand this. We can’t just write in crayon what this all really means for them. 

What an unutterably snobby thing to say. Maybe they haven't all had the same luck and opportunities. Or they could just be too busy working for a living to give the time to politics. Older people in particular still believe what they see and hear in the media, it wouldn't lie to them, would it...?  However they are all slowly but surely waking up, and when they do their anger will know no bounds 

You really are the sort of person who gives the Tories a bad name, the nasty party personified. . . .

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anna B

[Albert the Cat]

4 minutes ago, Anna B said:

What an unutterably snobby thing to say. Maybe they haven't all had the same luck and opportunities. Or they could just be too busy working for a living to give the time to politics. 

You really are the sort of person who gives the Tories a bad name, the nasty party personified. . . .

Not at all. I actually voted Labour, because I was able to cut through the Tory manifesto and understand what it really meant. You don’t need luck to get a decent education, it is available to all. If you can’t apply yourself, whose fault is that. I don’t buy the argument that people are too busy working for a living. I work 13hr shifts and I still can be bothered to understand what I voted for. 
 

I wished the lowest common denominator wasn’t so clueless, but that is the unfortunate reality. Stop making excuses and step up the intelligence of the debate. 

[Anna B]

4 minutes ago, Albert the Cat said:

Not at all. I actually voted Labour, because I was able to cut through the Tory manifesto and understand what it really meant. You don’t need luck to get a decent education, it is available to all. If you can’t apply yourself, whose fault is that. I don’t buy the argument that people are too busy working for a living. I work 13hr shifts and I still can be bothered to understand what I voted for. 
 

I wished the lowest common denominator wasn’t so clueless, but that is the unfortunate reality. Stop making excuses and step up the intelligence of the debate. 

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

[BoroB]

22 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

I agree with Anna B on this, it was very shrewd of Boris to tell the electorate where he stood on Brexit.

 

If only Jeremy Corbyn had been clear and concise on where he stood on Brexit things could have turned out differently.

[Michael_W]

1 hour ago, Albert the Cat said:

Not at all. I actually voted Labour, because I was able to cut through the Tory manifesto and understand what it really meant. You don’t need luck to get a decent education, it is available to all. If you can’t apply yourself, whose fault is that. I don’t buy the argument that people are too busy working for a living. I work 13hr shifts and I still can be bothered to understand what I voted for. 
 

I wished the lowest common denominator wasn’t so clueless, but that is the unfortunate reality. Stop making excuses and step up the intelligence of the debate. 

Are you really so naive to believe that having qualifications make you worldly and wise ? Is it not a fact that sort of attitude particularly amongst arrogant middle class socialists has itself been the downfall of Labour with many  working class voters in recent years ?

That willingness to demonise everyone who voted for Brexit as uneducated, bigoted, racist, gammon etc is one of the main reasons why many working class people have turned against Labour, that narrative manifested itself amongst the Remainers in the political establishment, and Jeremy Corbyn could not put himself on any one side of the Brexit divide because many in his party had been responsible for that. Look at the socialist worker mob that demonstrated in London at every opportunity with the Remainers, how they constantly demonised and called those they disagreed with ..... is that divisive attitude any better than those they claim to oppose ?

They have in fact created their own nemesis by being so divisive themselves IMHO !

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

This election was only ever going to be about one thing.  Everyone could see it. You could see it from space.

 

The only person who didn't seem to see it was a dithery weak old man leading the opposition party and his deluded obsessive disciples.

 

Face facts. He failed in his campaigning.  He failed to set out what he actually stood for.   He failed to reach out and engage with the actual people in their parties heartlands.

 

Chucking out endless sweeties and wedging yourself firmly on the fence to try and please everybody doesn't work.  It makes you look desperate to the electorate and that's exactly how he came across.

 

Now rather than accepting their defeat and facing the consequences they are throwing out the excuses and banging on about media bias, an ill-informed electorate - blaming everyone and their mother for voting the "wrong" way.

 

Even the old man himself has not done the decent thing and stood down.  He is still there desperately clinging on until such time as the momentum morons find another useless leader who suits their agenda - rather than one that the electorate actually want to vote for.

 

Within this thread you have had plenty of judgmental little barbs about the Tory voters and them seemingly being totally oblivious to what they were voting for.  

 

Well about time you deal with the fact they knew exactly what they were voting for.   YOU just don't like it. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[L00b]

13 hours ago, catmiss said:

It’s the sort of things they want to get done (and I don’t mean Brexit) that worries me

What the Conservatives want to do, currently, is whatever Dominic Cummings wants to do.

 

Exhibit A: grab the civil service by the scruff of the neck, shake and shred it very violently, and remodel on a de minimis basis

 

(topically, the speech of the local British Ambassador, guest-speaking  at a xmas lunch I attended last Friday, is taking a fuller meaning today )

 

For those (few) readers who know about Cummings, this is one his main, long-term and well-known policy goals, which he's now finally about to deliver through his glove puppet Johnson.

 

So, you work in the civil service, and you just voted for the Tories...ROFL!

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

It wasn't a mistake for Johnson: it was an elephant trap that he set for Corbyn (and Swinson), and Corbyn (and Swinson) walked straight into it, with both eyes open.

 

Tony Blair warned him of exactly that on 2 September. Now you don't have to like the man or his record or his policies or... But you cannot but respect his political acumen.

 

Same story with the other heavyweights of yesteryear, ex-PMs and fathers of the house alike, in the enduring absence of modern-day heavyweights: you could do worse than have a listen, and a good think about, what they're saying.

[ECCOnoob]

1 minute ago, L00b said:

It wasn't a mistake for Johnson: it was an elephant trap that he set for Corbyn (and Swinson), and Corbyn (and Swinson) walked straight into it, with both eyes open.

 

Tony Blair warned him of exactly that on 2 September. Now you don't have to like the man or his record or his policies or... But you cannot but respect his political acumen.

 

Same story with the other heavyweights of yesteryear, ex-PMs and fathers of the house alike, in the enduring absence of modern-day heavyweights: you could do worse than have a listen, and a good think about, what they're saying.

Fully agree with that. 

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

Are you really so naive to believe that having qualifications make you worldly and wise ? Is it not a fact that sort of attitude particularly amongst arrogant middle class socialists has itself been the downfall of Labour with many  working class voters in recent years ?

That willingness to demonise everyone who voted for Brexit as uneducated, bigoted, racist, gammon etc is one of the main reasons why many working class people have turned against Labour, that narrative manifested itself amongst the Remainers in the political establishment, and Jeremy Corbyn could not put himself on any one side of the Brexit divide because many in his party had been responsible for that. Look at the socialist worker mob that demonstrated in London at every opportunity with the Remainers, how they constantly demonised and called those they disagreed with ..... is that divisive attitude any better than those they claim to oppose ?

They have in fact created their own nemesis by being so divisive themselves IMHO !

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Brexit should have been cross party from the start. It's split both parties.

The irony is that Jeremy Corbyn is no fan of the EU and left to himself would have voted to leave. 

 

Johnson could not guarantee to 'get it done' either. It depended on him getting a majority, and at the time we were heading for a hung parliament. Corbyn couldn't guarantee staying in either but wouldn't lie about it.. 

 

How often does it need to be said that we have years of negotiating ahead before we are out out.

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anna B