Scotland And Independence.

[Baron99]

33 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Totally agree, Baron99 - they're always claiming they don't need English money, but then claiming what they do get isn't enough - double standards or stupidity?

And let's remember it's THEIR oil. 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20848564.iain-macwhirter-world-gas-price-rigged-not-use/

 

"Britain used to be self-sufficient in oil and gas until about 2003. Most of the hydrocarbons have gone. But as the SNP regularly reminds us there is still about 20 billion barrels in Scottish waters – enough to keep the UK going for about 15 years." 

 

Above from one of the main Scots papers.  Expect to begging bowl about 2040 then? 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Baron99

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

(…)

 

 No problem if the Scots want independence but if they do, I don't want to see Sturgeon & the rest of the Scots Nats, demanding financial reparations as though they were some brow beaten, down trodden country that was once part of a fictitious English Empire.   The SNP keep banging on about how wealthy the country is & how it could prosper without the mainly English taxpayer's money.  So be it you go it alone, don't come asking the English for another penny. 

The UK would still have to pay pensions to retired Scots (up to point in time of course) who paid into the general UK pot up to the split.
 

The UK may also need to get its hand in its pocket to keep the use of Stornaway and Faslane.

 

The UK may wish to agree tarification for procuring Scottish renewable energy.

 

(…)

 

Just sayin’

 

We’ve all seen, and some of us debated, the Brexit divorce bill at the time, with many a poster shouting ‘not a Penny’ in a huff…and then look what happened. Same difference here.

 

These settlements are never black-and-white, nor straightforward, no matter how much people may wish them to be.

[Baron99]

13 minutes ago, L00b said:

The UK would still have to pay pensions to retired Scots (up to point in time of course) who paid into the general UK pot up to the split.
 

The UK may also need to get its hand in its pocket to keep the use of Stornaway and Faslane.

 

The UK may wish to agree tarification for procuring Scottish renewable energy.

 

(…)

 

Just sayin’

 

We’ve all seen, and some of us debated, the Brexit divorce bill at the time, with many a poster shouting ‘not a Penny’ in a huff…and then look what happened. Same difference here.

 

These settlements are never black-and-white, nor straightforward, no matter how much people may wish them to be.

I agree that pensions / benefits have to be honoured up to a cut-off date but I'd presume that Scotland has commitments to the Union & it is them that is intending  to  break away, so any 'divorce' payments, much like the UK with the EU, would be on their part not ours.  They're the ones walking away. 

 

As for such as Faslane, the SNP made it clear years ago that they didn't want nuclear weapons on their soil so I suppose the Royal Navy will have to find another suitable port.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by Baron99

[Dromedary]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

And let's remember it's THEIR oil. 

Only if you are Scottish.... 

 

[Axe]

20 hours ago, L00b said:

Good outcome for the SNP, that’s “suppressed will of the people” manna from political heaven for their next GE.

What about the will of the Scottish people who don't want another referendum and want to remain part of the UK?  When the Scottish Parliament was formed there was an agreement made that any Scottish independence referendum would need that approval of the Westminster Parliament.  It was the SNP leader Alex Salmond and the Prime Minister at the time Tony Blair who were responsible for drawing up the legislation for any Scottish independence referendum to happen.  They had a Scottish independence referendum in 2014 because the Westminster Parliament agreed to grant approval.  Nicola Sturgeon wasted the time of the Supreme Court by challenging what had been agreed when the Scottish Parliament was established. 

[L00b]

9 hours ago, Axe said:

What about the will of the Scottish people who don't want another referendum and want to remain part of the UK?  When the Scottish Parliament was formed there was an agreement made that any Scottish independence referendum would need that approval of the Westminster Parliament.  It was the SNP leader Alex Salmond and the Prime Minister at the time Tony Blair who were responsible for drawing up the legislation for any Scottish independence referendum to happen.  They had a Scottish independence referendum in 2014 because the Westminster Parliament agreed to grant approval.  Nicola Sturgeon wasted the time of the Supreme Court by challenging what had been agreed when the Scottish Parliament was established. 

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

[Axe]

29 minutes ago, L00b said:

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

There was a gap of 41 years between the two EU membership referendums. It's only been 8 years since the Scottish independence referendum.  

[ECCOnoob]

49 minutes ago, L00b said:

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

Edited November 24, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Mister Gee]

17 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

You’ve got some front, it wasn’t that long ago that you were calling the praises of the former disgraced Prime Minister Johnson.

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Axe said:

There was a gap of 41 years between the two EU membership referendums. It's only been 8 years since the Scottish independence referendum.  

Do you really want to make the Scots wait another 33 years, before granting them a right to self-determination, then?

 

Some democracy you are 😏

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

Do we really need to go over the whole ‘significant and material changes in circumstances that prevailed in 2014’ thing again?

Edited November 24, 2022 by L00b