Remembering The Holocaust.

[BobOfRoth]

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

Haha.

 

Lovely rant. If you can’t see how Farage has enabled a tide of rather vile nationalism, then  I feel for you.

 

 

You've no need to feel for me. Im fine and that wasn't a rant as anyone can plainly see.

For clarity here is my request again... Do try to answer it if you can.

 

Too clever to be seen that way?

Well seeing as we live in a time where if you disagree with the narrative of the left you are automatically considered far right/a Nazi/etc then Im afraid Id like to see some proof of Nigel's supposed enabling of modern day Nazis and I mean real actual proof from an impartial source and not some slanted piece in a far left rag or website.

[Litotes]

5 hours ago, hauxwell said:

I ask myself the same question as Pattricia how could the German people be taken in by a mad man?

Clever rhetoric resonating with the masses with twisted truths...

 

Mirrored with Trump, mirrored with Boris.

 

First they close the borders, then they subjugate the masses, then when it all starts going south they blame someone else...

[tinfoilhat]

6 hours ago, hauxwell said:

I ask myself the same question as Pattricia how could the German people be taken in by a mad man?

After the First World War some historians say The Treaty of Versailles was to harsh which was meant to punish and humiliate Germany.  Then along came Hitler who took no notice of the Treaty.  

One thing Hitler was brilliant at was public speaking, probably one of  the greatest in the world.  He was able to bewitch his audiences who believed every word he said.  So he decided to blame the Jews for all the worlds problems and the German people believed him.

 

 

Not really. Given the state of the economy at the time it wasn't hard to find a suitable scapegoat.

5 hours ago, BobOfRoth said:

Well Germans were employed building new infrastructure, homes, buildings of other sorts so youre probably spot on with that.

 

They were re-arming before Hitler got into power, which was news to me.

[Pettytom]

1 hour ago, BobOfRoth said:

You've no need to feel for me. Im fine and that wasn't a rant as anyone can plainly see.

For clarity here is my request again... Do try to answer it if you can.

 

Too clever to be seen that way?

Well seeing as we live in a time where if you disagree with the narrative of the left you are automatically considered far right/a Nazi/etc then Im afraid Id like to see some proof of Nigel's supposed enabling of modern day Nazis and I mean real actual proof from an impartial source and not some slanted piece in a far left rag or website.

Tell you what.

 

You evidence your opinion about disagreeing with the “narrative of the left” and I’ll evidence mine of Farage being an enabler of the far right.

 

It is a tactic of the far right to try to shut down debate by demanding evidence of stuff that can’t be evidenced. 
 

Farage’s motives are clear to anyone with a quarter of a brain. No amount of misdirection from people like you will hide that.

[BobOfRoth]

16 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Tell you what.

 

You evidence your opinion about disagreeing with the “narrative of the left” and I’ll evidence mine of Farage being an enabler of the far right.

 

It is a tactic of the far right to try to shut down debate by demanding evidence of stuff that can’t be evidenced. 
 

Farage’s motives are clear to anyone with a quarter of a brain. No amount of misdirection from people like you will hide that.

Ah, so because I asked for proof im now far right??

lol.

But you also asked for proof, does that make you far right?

[Pettytom]

22 minutes ago, BobOfRoth said:

Ah, so because I asked for proof im now far right??

lol.

But you also asked for proof, does that make you far right?

Oh Bob, do read things more carefully.

 

It is the shutting down of debate that I was referring to. That’s always been a feature of the far right’s debating method.

 

The important point is that Farage, by his actions, has allowed an unpleasant brand of nationalism to take hold in our nation.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Pettytom

[Lex Luthor]

The Holocaust was horrific and catastrophic.  It is important that we never forget.

 

Patricia, many Germans didn't take it all lying down.  Thousands of German citizens took an enormously brave stand against Nazism and Hitler.  Thousands were executed for it, ( there's an approximate figure of 77,000 on Wikipedia for the number of German citizens that were executed for taking a stand).  Thousands more helped Jews flee and hid them, which would have been punishable by death and would have also endangered the lives of their own loved ones.  There would be a lot fewer survivors of the Holocaust, were it not for the enormous bravery and compassion of many, many Germans.

 

Pettytom and BobOfRoth, you're both right.  There's a long-standing tradition across the whole political spectrum on closing down debate from the opposition.  We need to be listening to one another, instead.  It's not helpful to dismiss the right as Nazis, nor the left as Bolsheviks, this black and white labelling is what contributed to the rise of Nazism in the first place, where in reality, 99.9% of us are somewhere in the middle.  

 

It's important to not stifle debate.  Like the whole Brexit debacle, Remainers felt it was ok to label Leavers as being from the far-right and racists, Leavers felt it was ok to label Remainers as being from the far-left but in reality, most people came from a more central position.  People should be able to voice their concerns about parties using  posters with queues of minorities on them to whip up nationalism, just as people should be able to voice any concerns they have about immigration.  Stifling debate and seeing things in extremist terms alienates the majority of us somewhere in the middle, and can lead to catastrophic consequences, as we have seen, particularly when combined with spiralling poverty and inequality.  

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Lex Luthor

[hauxwell]

1 hour ago, Lex Luthor said:

Patricia, many Germans didn't take it all lying down.  Thousands of German citizens took an enormously brave stand against Nazism and Hitler.  Thousands were executed for it, ( there's an approximate figure of 77,000 on Wikipedia for the number of German citizens that were executed for taking a stand).  Thousands more helped Jews flee and hid them, which would have been punishable by death and would have also endangered the lives of their own loved ones.  There would be a lot fewer survivors of the Holocaust, were it not for the enormous bravery and compassion of many, many Germans.

Yes I agree with you on this.  

[hobinfoot]

A family friend who served throughout the war and seen many terrible things said entering Bergen-Belsen was horrific and without doubt the worst memory He’d had from the war. 

[pattricia]

5 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

The Holocaust was horrific and catastrophic.  It is important that we never forget.

 

Patricia, many Germans didn't take it all lying down.  Thousands of German citizens took an enormously brave stand against Nazism and Hitler.  Thousands were executed for it, ( there's an approximate figure of 77,000 on Wikipedia for the number of German citizens that were executed for taking a stand).  Thousands more helped Jews flee and hid them, which would have been punishable by death and would have also endangered the lives of their own loved ones.  There would be a lot fewer survivors of the Holocaust, were it not for the enormous bravery and compassion of many, many Germans.

 

Pettytom and BobOfRoth, you're both right.  There's a long-standing tradition across the whole political spectrum on closing down debate from the opposition.  We need to be listening to one another, instead.  It's not helpful to dismiss the right as Nazis, nor the left as Bolsheviks, this black and white labelling is what contributed to the rise of Nazism in the first place, where in reality, 99.9% of us are somewhere in the middle.  

 

It's important to not stifle debate.  Like the whole Brexit debacle, Remainers felt it was ok to label Leavers as being from the far-right and racists, Leavers felt it was ok to label Remainers as being from the far-left but in reality, most people came from a more central position.  People should be able to voice their concerns about parties using  posters with queues of minorities on them to whip up nationalism, just as people should be able to voice any concerns they have about immigration.  Stifling debate and seeing things in extremist terms alienates the majority of us somewhere in the middle, and can lead to catastrophic consequences, as we have seen, particularly when combined with spiralling poverty and inequality.  

 

Thanks Lex. You’ve put it all into perspective now.

There is a tour of the camps but someone I know has been round them and says they are very depressing. But they should be left there to make us think what the Nazis did to the Jews.