Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[harvey19]

12 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Farage is making the same excuse that communists make when it's pointed out to them that communism doesn't work and has never worked anywhere. It's not the fault of the ideology it's the way it's not been implemented correctly.

Notice that Farage and the other unhappy Brexiteers never explain exactly what should have been done in order to make it the roaring success they promised.

They don't do that because there isn't a successful way to isolate yourself when every other major country in the world is either in a Trade Bloc or is paying to be in a Trade Blocs market.

To prove that, we have joined a Trade Bloc on the other side of the world and have had to accept the regulations they have already agreed on with out our input. So much for Taking Back Control. After we have renegotiated all the other trade deals from a weaker position than we had as a member of a 500 Million Market we will have far less control than we did as EU members.

 

Thank you for the debate also.

Just as an aside as I am in my 70s I try to debate issues to keep my brain active. !

So at times I am provocative to stimulate things.

Nothing is ever personal.

[Al Bundy]

Just now, harvey19 said:

Just as an aside as I am in my 70s I try to debate issues to keep my brain active. !

So at times I am provocative to stimulate things.

Nothing is ever personal.

I would like to think that goes for most of us on here.

👍

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

Polling evidence suggest that this ‘group’ should actually be called the British public, and that the ‘dwindling group’ is those few still “believing” in the Brexit that they voted for indeed.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/03/brits-are-suffering-bregret-but-brexit-is-no-longer-a-priority-data.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1677825570

 

😉

Reality had to dawn at some point I suppose. 

Although I'm in the demographic age group that apparently voted Leave more than other and despite not being a fan of politicians in general of any nationality or persuasion I voted Remain. I did so for purely pragmatic reasons. It's the way the world works these days,  also I appreciated the fact that European trade blocs were the main reason for the longest period of peace between member states since Pax Romana, which ended over one thousand eight hundred years ago.

My father served through WW2 his elder brother through WW1 and their first cousin has lain in his grave in Luke Copse War Cemetery in Serre France since 1916. He was 19 and neither my father or I ever had the chance to meet him. 

I take a passing interest in politics because whether we like it or not it effects all our lives. I want a peacefull and happy life for my family and their offspring and everybody else.

As a man I once saw at Sheffield City Hall said " I'm a dreamer, aren't we all ".

[m williamson]

12 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Just as an aside as I am in my 70s I try to debate issues to keep my brain active. !

So at times I am provocative to stimulate things.

Nothing is ever personal.

Born in 47 so also not in the first flush of youth 😀. We are on the same mission here harvey.

Don't worry, I don't take things personally, I have strong opinions but recognise that other people do as well, obviously they're wrong and I'm right, but no need to fall out over it 😉

 

Take care my friend, it'll all come out in the wash.

[harvey19]

1 minute ago, m williamson said:

Born in 47 so also not in the first flush of youth 😀. We are on the same mission here harvey.

Don't worry, I don't take things personally, I have strong opinions but recognise that other people do as well, obviously they're wrong and I'm right, but no need to fall out over it 😉

 

Take care my friend, it'll all come out in the wash.

October 1947 for me.

Although we usually disagree I value your opinions.

Best wishes.

[m williamson]

15 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

October 1947 for me.

Although we usually disagree I value your opinions.

Best wishes.

Youngster, February 1947 in Heeley, eight foot of snow outside, those were the days.

 

Take care.

[harvey19]

4 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Youngster, February 1947 in Heeley, eight foot of snow outside, those were the days.

 

Take care.

Born in a prefab at Wadsley Bridge.

In future I will pay respect to my elders !

[m williamson]

2 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Born in a prefab at Wadsley Bridge.

In future I will pay respect to my elders !

I should think so too, just imagine all that extra wisdom I aquired during those additional seven months I've spent on the planet.

[harvey19]

27 minutes ago, m williamson said:

I should think so too, just imagine all that extra wisdom I aquired during those additional seven months I've spent on the planet.

I think we have been very lucky living in the era we have done.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by harvey19

[L00b]

13 hours ago, m williamson said:

Although I'm in the demographic age group that apparently voted Leave more than other and despite not being a fan of politicians in general of any nationality or persuasion I voted Remain. I did so for purely pragmatic reasons. It's the way the world works these days,  also I appreciated the fact that European trade blocs were the main reason for the longest period of peace between member states since Pax Romana, which ended over one thousand eight hundred years ago.

My father served through WW2 his elder brother through WW1 and their first cousin has lain in his grave in Luke Copse War Cemetery in Serre France since 1916. He was 19 and neither my father or I ever had the chance to meet him. 

I take a passing interest in politics because whether we like it or not it effects all our lives. I want a peacefull and happy life for my family and their offspring and everybody else.

As a man I once saw at Sheffield City Hall said " I'm a dreamer, aren't we all ".

I'm not in that demographic, I'm in the following generation.

 

But born and grown up in that particular region of north eastern France, that was fought over by France and Germany thrice over a century , I have relatives (great grandparents, great uncles, great cousins, grandparents etc.) who were, over that period, forced into becoming German (1870 annexation), conscripted into the Kaiser's Army (WW1, they fled for the US, never to come back nor see their families again), dispossessed and force-evicted by Germans (1940 2nd annexation, becoming refugees in their own country until 1945), force-conscripted into the Wehrmacht (WW2...lucky not to be force-conscripted into the SS).

 

My grandfather was a reservist lieutenant in 1940, recalled and posted to the Maginot line near the Alsace-Germany border. Abandoned by Army Command and as the French army was fighting a retreat along the Moselle-Alsace border going south, he walked his troops (all conscripts from the Paris area) back to their homes (180 miles as the crow flies), then walked back home himself (150 miles). He never talked about his war days, nor did his cousin about his Wehrmacht days. Well, we know why all too well these days.

 

I know that he did some resistance stuff in Lozère (where he was force-evicted to in late 1940, with my great grandmother and my great aunt, and  a single suitcase allowed between them 3), from research with Le Souvenir Francais (Resistance archives) over the years, but not in any details. Not surprised at that, he was quiet, soft-spoken and self-effacing like an accountant...but he ran the local gun club pre-war all the same  

 

Well, anyways...yes, to the surprise of absolutely noone on here, I'm a europhile. The above goes a good way to explain why, likewise my strong opinions on the topic, on Russia's aggression of Ukraine, on populists and similar snake oil peddlers, and on the hardening hard right that passes for the Conservatives these days.

 

I don't resent Germans. At all. Today's Germans are no more responsible for all that happened in the late 19th and throughout the first half of the 20th century, than today's Brits, French, Spanyards, Portuguese <etc.> are responsible for yesteryear's empire-building, pillaging, slavery <etc.>. But I keep a good memory of what happened and how it happened, and so do most people my parent's age, my age and younger, born of the area (incl.cross-border). One of my most treasured possessions, is my great grandfather's English schoolbook (1899), intended for German kids instead of French kids (his family  was 'made' German at the 1870 annexation). 

Edited May 18, 2023 by L00b