Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[m williamson]

55 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The fact is that if the 1921 treaty had been written differently  none of this would never have happened. There are a couple of relevant words in it which I am sure with your knowledge of Irish history you know.

I would never deny there were faults and as I said earlier N. Ireland was like a leaky roof patched but not mended.

Regarding sentenced security forces, just think how evidence is gathered and witnesses are willing to give statements.

You constantly refer to none of the people wanted.... the catholic population welcomed the troops when they arrived.

Have you looked up the number of terrorist offences and how many people were charged.

 

I will let you post links to Brexit successes as it will give you a chance to see it from a different angle. 

 

Haven't you noticed that the wishes of the N. Irish protestants are ignored in all the posts.

The Treaty divided a nation and allowed another country to retain ownership of a part of it. That was not, and is not, acceptable and it won't be resolved until the country is reunited once again.

Hopefully that will be by peaceful means. The British government have accepted that they no longer have the final say, it is up to the people on the island of Ireland to decide, the mechanism for them to do so has been put in place in the Good Friday Agreement, an international peace treaty registered with the UN. The wishes of all the people of Northern Ireland will be catered for in any border poll.

Reunification is inevitable, demographics, economics and commonsense will eventually bring it about. 

 

How do you expect me to post links to Brexit successes when there haven't been any as far as the general public are concerned? People such as Rees Mogg have made millions from the gullibility of Leavers but I don't regard that as a benefit to the country.

 

 

[harvey19]

37 minutes ago, m williamson said:

The Treaty divided a nation and allowed another country to retain ownership of a part of it. That was not, and is not, acceptable and it won't be resolved until the country is reunited once again.

Hopefully that will be by peaceful means. The British government have accepted that they no longer have the final say, it is up to the people on the island of Ireland to decide, the mechanism for them to do so has been put in place in the Good Friday Agreement, an international peace treaty registered with the UN. The wishes of all the people of Northern Ireland will be catered for in any border poll.

Reunification is inevitable, demographics, economics and commonsense will eventually bring it about. 

 

How do you expect me to post links to Brexit successes when there haven't been any as far as the general public are concerned? People such as Rees Mogg have made millions from the gullibility of Leavers but I don't regard that as a benefit to the country.

 

 

The words in the treaty explain it is only temporary until the majority want to change it.

Nothing to do with the GFA or anything else.

It is this which in my mind caused all the problems.

It was expected to happen in 2016 .

I always thought reunification would happen and be driven by common utilities etc.

Brexit advantages are not shouted about as they were expected and not unusual or sensational and so you may need to spend a bit more time searching for them.

 

It has been an interesting debate about the future of Ireland and I value your opinions but please appreciate those who lived through the troubles have had unique and terrible experiences and insights which those who were not there can ever imagine. I include all the people of N.Ireland in this statement.

[altus]

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Brexit advantages are not shouted about as they were expected and not unusual or sensational and so you may need to spend a bit more time searching for them.

Nonsense. If there were any brexit advantages, the Daily Mail, GB News, etc. would be crowing about them. Their silence speaks volumes.

 

If you are so certain brexit advantages exist you post links to them - don't send other people on wild goose chases.

[Delbow]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

Hard to believe with all the new science and technology this situation has developed.

Someone needs to be answerable and made accountable.

It's got nothing to do with lack of science and technology and everything to do with greed. Sewage gets flushed into rivers and streams in periods of high rainfall, when there is insufficient storage capacity to hold the extra water back. We could have the extra capacity we need to avoid this being done, except the water companies seem to have given all of their profits to shareholders and parent companies instead of investing in additional capacity. So our waterways are full of raw sewage so that some people can get rich. It's pretty mind-blowing that you raise this in the Brexit thread, because of course Brexit makes it easier to pollute waterways, not harder. You may have missed Michael Gove's announcement very recently that the government plans to allow housebuilders to pollute waterways in a way they are currently not allowed to do because of EU law that has been retained - Gove went out of his way to describe this  as a 'Brexit bonus'.

 

The 'freedom' from the EU that the leavers went on about in the run up to the referendum was so obviously (to some) going to be the freedom of polluters and big business to do whatever they wanted without EU laws their to protect the rest of us and our natural heritage. Part of the fault here lies with the people who believed that Brexit was about making life better or 'freer' for everyone - some of those people make a whale omelette look like a fine Breton galette by comparison.

[Axe]

2 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Why has Argentina more right to the Falklands , the natives seem happy to be under the UK protection . As do over half of the inhabitants of Ulster  

They had a referendum 10 years ago where 99.8% voted if favour to remain a British territory.  Also well over half of the inhabitants of Ulster want to remain part of the UK otherwise Sinn Fein would have campaigned for a border poll.

[harvey19]

15 minutes ago, altus said:

Nonsense. If there were any brexit advantages, the Daily Mail, GB News, etc. would be crowing about them. Their silence speaks volumes.

 

If you are so certain brexit advantages exist you post links to them - don't send other people on wild goose chases.

I am trying to improve others investigative skills.

Brexiteers are a quiet and modest bunch who do not brag and as their successes are expected they are not sensational enough for the press.

[HeHasRisen]

17 minutes ago, altus said:

Nonsense. If there were any brexit advantages, the Daily Mail, GB News, etc. would be crowing about them. Their silence speaks volumes.

 

If you are so certain brexit advantages exist you post links to them - don't send other people on wild goose chases.

Blue passports that are actually black and made in the EU, obviously! 

[harvey19]

15 minutes ago, Delbow said:

It's got nothing to do with lack of science and technology and everything to do with greed. Sewage gets flushed into rivers and streams in periods of high rainfall, when there is insufficient storage capacity to hold the extra water back. We could have the extra capacity we need to avoid this being done, except the water companies seem to have given all of their profits to shareholders and parent companies instead of investing in additional capacity. So our waterways are full of raw sewage so that some people can get rich. It's pretty mind-blowing that you raise this in the Brexit thread, because of course Brexit makes it easier to pollute waterways, not harder. You may have missed Michael Gove's announcement very recently that the government plans to allow housebuilders to pollute waterways in a way they are currently not allowed to do because of EU law that has been retained - Gove went out of his way to describe this  as a 'Brexit bonus'.

 

The 'freedom' from the EU that the leavers went on about in the run up to the referendum was so obviously (to some) going to be the freedom of polluters and big business to do whatever they wanted without EU laws their to protect the rest of us and our natural heritage. Part of the fault here lies with the people who believed that Brexit was about making life better or 'freer' for everyone - some of those people make a whale omelette look like a fine Breton galette by comparison.

I did not raise the issue, just replied to a post.

[Delbow]

13 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I am trying to improve others investigative skills.

 

LOL

[m williamson]

17 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The words in the treaty explain it is only temporary until the majority want to change it.

Nothing to do with the GFA or anything else.

It is this which in my mind caused all the problems.

It was expected to happen in 2016 .

I always thought reunification would happen and be driven by common utilities etc.

Brexit advantages are not shouted about as they were expected and not unusual or sensational and so you may need to spend a bit more time searching for them.

 

It has been an interesting debate about the future of Ireland and I value your opinions but please appreciate those who lived through the troubles have had unique and terrible experiences and insights which those who were not there can ever imagine. I include all the people of N.Ireland in this statement.

There was no mechanism in place to enable a vote to bring about reunification in the Treaty of 1921. The unionists were presented with a gerrymandered manufactured majority and they made full use of that by discriminating in every possible way against the Catholic nationalist population. 

They had no intention of rejoining the rest of the country and there was no way of democratically changing that until the Troubles ended in the signing of the GFA. There is now a democratic solution.

If you click on this link ( which I provided in an earlier post ) you can find out what some of the people in Northern Ireland think about the situation.

https://www.sluggerotoole.com/2023/09/07/controversy-legacy-bill-passes-through-commons/  They're not overly complimentary with regard to the way that their views are ignored by Westminster.

 

You're having a laugh with regard to the advantages of Brexit aren't you? Very amusing, £100 million a year in costs and being regarded as a laughing stock by most other countries wasn't expected by leavers but it happened.

The negatives of leaving far outweigh any minor illusory advantage. It's that bad that Brexiteers have made up stuff in order to try to show a positive. " We got the vaccine quicker than the EU ".  We could have done exactly the same had we remained as members, paid through the nose and got it early. Hungary are EU members and they chose to do their own thing and bought their vaccine from Russia.

 

So please inform us of an advantage we have gained that we couldn't have had as EU members and which has made the turmoil worthwhile.