Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Car Boot]

On 24/11/2020 at 16:05, Anna B said:

Can somebody tell me why we no longer make British cars in Britain? (Apart from Morgans, serious question.)

The political and economic will to make British cars no longer exists Anna, a consequence of our EU membership.

 

'Leave it to the EU - we're not capable' has become the mentality of most of our political leaders, the Whitehall mandarins at the top of the civil service and our so-called captains of industry.

 

It smacks of a 'UK is a failure' attitude which has become increasingly prevalent during our membership of the EU capitalist club.

 

So much so that it explains the Remain vote and the terrified belief that to Leave the EU is an act of economic suicide. It's nothing of the sort, of course. We will adapt and do things differently, as we always have.

 

It's not the fault of British workers that we don't make British cars anymore - it's because our political and economic leaders lack vision and ambition. 

 

Just leave it to the EU and the Japanese!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Car Boot

[Pettytom]

44 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Yes, of course the German motor industry will want to sell cars to British customers.  All the EU will want to continue exporting to Britain.  The trade deal is 95% agreed and it will be completed before 31st December.  However, Brexit is still an opportunity for Britain to start manufacturing products and goods again. If not much changes then it will have been a wasted opportunity.

Why was membership of the EU a barrier to  us  in terms of manufacturing? Other EU countries manufacture plenty of goods. Why were we so inept?

 

If you Brexiters don’t get a grip of this situation, it will be a wasted generation that we are looking at, not a wasted opportunity.

 

Over to you lot.

 

1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

 

 

'Leave it to the EU - we're not capable' has become the mentality of most of our political leaders, the Whitehall mandarins at the top of the civil service and our so-called captains of industry.

 

It smacks of a 'UK is a failure' attitude which has become increasingly prevalent during our membership of the EU capitalist club

 

 

I’m sorry, Wolfie, you are going to have to redraft this bit. Blaming the U.K. for sucking at the test of the EU is logically inconsistent with the notion that the EU was bleeding us dry. Remember that big red bus.

 

So, have another go. But do remember that you can’t be claiming that we are totally dependent upon the EU and that they are simultaneously totally dependent upon us. Unless you believe that symbiosis is a bad thing.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Pettytom

[Pettytom]

42 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It's fairly obvious the easier it is for a country to import goods from foreign countries then the domestic manufacturing industries will suffer. Regarding the motor industry we hear about 'just in time' supply chains for components coming from the EU.  If it wasn't so easy to get components from the EU then there would be more of an incentive to manufacture components in the UK.  It's not just the EU that has helped to decline our domestic manufacturing because obviously countries like China have played a massive role.  The more I think about it the more sense it would make to trade with the whole of the World on WTO terms then the Government could choose which raw materials, goods, food etc to impose the tariffs to encourage domestic manufacturing. Zero tariffs would obviously be beneficial providing they are applied to the raw materials, goods and food that wan't adversely affect British manufacturing. Both the British consumer and British industry would benefit from trading on WTO terms providing they Government managers the tariffs correctly.

So, what you really want is a return to inefficiency.

[L00b]

54 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It's fairly obvious the easier it is for a country to import goods from foreign countries then the domestic manufacturing industries will suffer. Regarding the motor industry we hear about 'just in time' supply chains for components coming from the EU.  If it wasn't so easy to get components from the EU then there would be more of an incentive to manufacture components in the UK.  It's not just the EU that has helped to decline our domestic manufacturing because obviously countries like China have played a massive role.  The more I think about it the more sense it would make to trade with the whole of the World on WTO terms then the Government could choose which raw materials, goods, food etc to impose the tariffs to encourage domestic manufacturing. Zero tariffs would obviously be beneficial providing they are applied to the raw materials, goods and food that wan't adversely affect British manufacturing. Both the British consumer and British industry would benefit from trading on WTO terms providing they Government managers the tariffs correctly.

Now take that worldview, move it to Stuttgart (e.g.) and, throughout the above, replace 'British' with 'German'.

 

Then revert to Pettytom's question that you were replying to.

11 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

So, what you really want is a return to inefficiency.

For West's economic worldview to 'work' (regardless of its (in)efficiency), it is contingent on the rest of the world doing the same.

 

Why would it?

Edited November 26, 2020 by L00b

[Pettytom]

1 minute ago, West 77 said:

 

 

How is wanted the British manufacturing industry to get stronger a return to inefficiency?

Maybe go and look up a definition for “inefficiency”. Have a lie down and a think and get back to me.

[Pettytom]

3 minutes ago, West 77 said:

You could have said you don't know the answer to my reasonable question which is obviously the situation.

There isn't really an answer. It is barely a question in any case, more a random collection of words.

 

There is no point in pursuing your rather silly idea that we can suddenly become self sufficient.

[altus]

27 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The EU has always worked best for Germany because they have by far the strongest manufacturing industry and benefit the most from selling their products especially motor vehicles throughout the EU tariff free.  Britain's manufacturing industry has never recovered from the mismanagement of the 70's. Being a member of the EU hasn't helped British manufacturing to recover. Brexit is an opportunity to re-build British manufacturing .

 

How is wanting the British manufacturing industry to get stronger a return to inefficiency?

Japanese car companies set up in the UK precisely because of our access to the rest of the EU market.

 

Rather than being taken as an opportunity to re-build British manufacturing, it will be used as an opportunity to return to the poor management practices[1] of the past resulting in poorer quality, more expensive products that nobody wants to buy. The protection from foreign competitors that you seem to want will only accelerate that process.

 

 

[1] e.g. The short termism mention by Loob earlier.

[L00b]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The EU has always worked best for Germany because they have by far the strongest manufacturing industry and benefit the most from selling their products especially motor vehicles throughout the EU tariff free.  Britain's manufacturing industry has never recovered from the mismanagement of the 70's. Being a member of the EU hasn't helped British manufacturing to recover. Brexit is an opportunity to re-build British manufacturing .

And Nissan UK did not over the last 40-odd years?

 

GM, Ford, Honda and BMW-Mini did not over the last 20-odd years?

 

You really should read Fintan O'Toole's "Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain". 

[Pettytom]

1 minute ago, West 77 said:

The phrase stop digging comes to my mind when you don't know the answer to a question.

 

I've never said Britain can suddenly become self sufficient. Brexit isn't just for Christmas it's a project for life.  We are not going to enjoy the benefits and opportunities in the short term.  Mrs Thatcher had a word for those in her cabinet who didn't want change to ensure a better future for Britain and that word is 'wets'

 

 

As I’ve already said, there isn’t an answer to your barely formed question. 
 

I am interested in the idea that the sunlit uplands are a few years away. Yesterday, none of this was the fault of the Conservative Party. Today, it’s going to take ages to get BL II off the ground and kickstart the new British Empire.

 

It really is time that you Brexit fanatics started to own the mess you’ve created.

[L00b]

21 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The phrase stop digging comes to my mind when you don't know the answer to a question.

 

I've never said Britain can suddenly become self sufficient. Brexit isn't just for Christmas it's a project for life.  We are not going to enjoy the benefits and opportunities in the short term.  Mrs Thatcher had a word for those in her cabinet who didn't want change to ensure a better future for Britain and that word is 'wets'

 

I've already acknowledge Japanese car companies set up in the UK precisely because of access to the rest of the EU.  However, that happened 40 years ago and the EU and the World has changed hell of lot since then.  If a Japanese car company or any non EU car company wanted to build a new car factory in the EU today they wouldn't choose Britain regardless of Brexit, they would choose Slovakia just like Jaguar Land Rover did.

But then, this Slovakia that they would choose today, is today's socio-economic equivalent of the UK 40 years ago - and that is exactly what the EU is all about: lifting all boats with the tide.

 

That is how and why the UK became a net contributor, likewise Germany, likewise France, likewise Ireland (in 2016, after 43 years)...eventually, so will Slovakia, and manufacturing will likely move yet again, as that country transitions to a knowledge-based economy like its forefathers did.

 

What you do not comprehend (or refuse to accept) is that the older/larger members should lift and help the new members to become as successful as them, instead of seeking to exploit them colony-like.

 

There's no place left for that worldview nowadays: if you're not a wagon collaborating with the others in the circle, well...good luck dealing with the indians outside on your own.

Edited November 26, 2020 by L00b