Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Mister M]

4 hours ago, harvey19 said:

I do not post links as articles can be found to support or criticise almost any subject depending on the source.

Let us hope things will move forward to the satisfaction of us all.

What would make you question the competence or morality of the present Government to the extent that you wouldn't vote for them at the next election?

[harvey19]

8 hours ago, Mister M said:

What would make you question the competence or morality of the present Government to the extent that you wouldn't vote for them at the next election?

The border they set up in the sea between the mainland and N. Ireland.

Not finding a system sort out the problem with illegal immigrants arriving in the small boats.

Not sorting out the care system and the N.H.S.
 We should train more doctors and nurses and other skills where there is a shortage. Do not charge them university fees but contract them to work a period of time in this country after qualifying.

Not stopping the unfair disparity between who pays and who doesn’t pay for old age care.

Not sorting out the illegal drug trade .

Not dealing with protest groups who cause disruption after already using the same tactics to emphasise their point.

Affordable housing which could be in the form of prefabs should have been increased.

 

just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[harvey19]

12 hours ago, m williamson said:

They'd definitely have been different but perhaps not in the way you imagine.

 

 

Farage is an appalling shyster who helped to cause serious damage to this country for his own financial benefit and is now considering leaving. He'll have no problem settling anywhere in the EU as he has a German passport.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/04/23/farage-applied-for-german-passport-on-day-after-2016-referendum-and-did-not-deny-having-one/

 

Ironic really as he caused more damage to the country that the Luftwaffe managed in WW2.

I contest your claim that articles can be found to support Brexit being a wonderful success. Prove me wrong.

I have never said it was a wonderful success.

My position is that it has happened. Pointless searching for articles to find fault.

We need to have a positive forward looking attitude and improve things with new and different methods of working.

A defeatist attitude does not motivate.

[L00b]

13 hours ago, m williamson said:

They'd definitely have been different but perhaps not in the way you imagine.

 

 

Farage is an appalling shyster who helped to cause serious damage to this country for his own financial benefit and is now considering leaving. He'll have no problem settling anywhere in the EU as he has a German passport.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/04/23/farage-applied-for-german-passport-on-day-after-2016-referendum-and-did-not-deny-having-one/

 

<…>

He doesn’t, his application was turned down 😉
 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by L00b

[L00b]

53 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The border they set up in the sea between the mainland and N. Ireland.

Not finding a system sort out the problem with illegal immigrants arriving in the small boats.

Not sorting out the care system and the N.H.S.
 We should train more doctors and nurses and other skills where there is a shortage. Do not charge them university fees but contract them to work a period of time in this country after qualifying.

Not stopping the unfair disparity between who pays and who doesn’t pay for old age care.

Not sorting out the illegal drug trade .

Not dealing with protest groups who cause disruption after already using the same tactics to emphasise their point.

Affordable housing which could be in the form of prefabs should have been increased.

 

just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

With the exception of the UK/NI sea border (which only arose because of Brexit, and which was unavoidable because of the GFA and the fact the Ireland was and remains an EU member state)…

 

…literally nothing out of your list has anything to do with EU membership, and all of it, has at all times been entirely within the scope of the government’s powers (edit: including before 2016).

 

People can move on constructively from a bad mistake, but first they need to realise, and accept, that it was bad mistake, and choose to learn from it. The alternative is simply throwing ever more shovel-fulls of glitter on the turd: the story of Brexit over the last 7 years.

Edited May 19, 2023 by L00b

[harvey19]

7 minutes ago, L00b said:

With the exception of the UK/NI sea border (which only arose because of Brexit, and which was unavoidable because of the GFA and the fact the Ireland was and remains an EU member state)…

 

…literally nothing out of your list has anything to do with EU membership, and all of it, has at all times been entirely within the scope of the government’s powers (edit: including before 2016).

 

People can move on constructively from a bad mistake, but first they need to realise, and accept, that it was bad mistake, and choose to learn from it. The alternative is simply throwing ever more shovel-fulls of glitter on the turd: the story of Brexit over the last 7 years.

Mister Ms question was a general one and he did not specify Brexit links.

I do realise this is a Brexit thread but thought he was widening the debate.

I think the border in the sea issue will be changed.

[L00b]

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

Mister Ms question was a general one and he did not specify Brexit links.

I do realise this is a Brexit thread but thought he was widening the debate.

I think the border in the sea issue will be changed.

Not until and unless the UK moves towards a loser relationship with the EU…so long as NI remains UK territory, that is.

 

This was discussed over pages and pages back in the day (pre-referendum and pre-actual Brexit): if the UK exits the EU, there *must* be a border between the UK and the EU *somewhere*.

 

It was known as the Brexit Border Conundrum, and crystallised when Theresa May came up with her ‘red lines’.

 

 

No FOM = No SM = Hard Brexit

Hard Brexit = NI Hard Border

NI Hard Border = End of GFA

End of GFA ruled out by EU & UK

 

EU said: (NI + SM) + (GB - SM) = GFA OK.

But May said: GB = NI = No SM (GFA not OK).

 

We know how that one ended up. NI leaving the Union and reunifying with Ireland would make all this moot (because NI would de facto (re)join the EU, in substantially the same way that the GDR joined the EEC when it reunited with Germany in 1990). But that notion is at least a good few years’ away, yet.

[harvey19]

58 minutes ago, L00b said:

Not until and unless the UK moves towards a loser relationship with the EU…so long as NI remains UK territory, that is.

 

This was discussed over pages and pages back in the day (pre-referendum and pre-actual Brexit): if the UK exits the EU, there *must* be a border between the UK and the EU *somewhere*.

 

It was known as the Brexit Border Conundrum, and crystallised when Theresa May came up with her ‘red lines’.

 

 

No FOM = No SM = Hard Brexit

Hard Brexit = NI Hard Border

NI Hard Border = End of GFA

End of GFA ruled out by EU & UK

 

EU said: (NI + SM) + (GB - SM) = GFA OK.

But May said: GB = NI = No SM (GFA not OK).

 

We know how that one ended up. NI leaving the Union and reunifying with Ireland would make all this moot (because NI would de facto (re)join the EU, in substantially the same way that the GDR joined the EEC when it reunited with Germany in 1990). But that notion is at least a good few years’ away, yet.

In essence you now realise why I gave the examples that I did and that you agree the sea border will be changed.

14 hours ago, m williamson said:

They'd definitely have been different but perhaps not in the way you imagine.

 

 

Farage is an appalling shyster who helped to cause serious damage to this country for his own financial benefit and is now considering leaving. He'll have no problem settling anywhere in the EU as he has a German passport.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/04/23/farage-applied-for-german-passport-on-day-after-2016-referendum-and-did-not-deny-having-one/

 

Ironic really as he caused more damage to the country that the Luftwaffe managed in WW2.

I contest your claim that articles can be found to support Brexit being a wonderful success. Prove me wrong.

Post 6048 by Loob ia an example of why I do not provide links.

We could post links ad finitism for and against almost anything.

[m williamson]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

I have never said it was a wonderful success.

My position is that it has happened. Pointless searching for articles to find fault.

We need to have a positive forward looking attitude and improve things with new and different methods of working.

A defeatist attitude does not motivate.

The point is harvey until Brexiteers accept unequivocally that it was entirely the wrong thing to have done no real progress can be made.

 

Trying to excuse this disaster and persisting in believing in the second empire or whatever delusion they have is damaging and preventing facing facts and rectifying them as much as possible.

Rejoining the Single Market would be a major steap/.

[Magilla]

54 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

In essence you now realise why I gave the examples that I did and that you agree the sea border will be changed.

Only by the break up of the UK as a result of Irish re-unification , or the UK re-joining the EU Single Market...

 

...these are the only paths that could lead to a removal of the border.

 

28 minutes ago, m williamson said:

The point is harvey until Brexiteers accept unequivocally that it was entirely the wrong thing to have done no real progress can be made.

Indeed, economically Harvey's "wait an see" approach is more akin to hoping the cancer you've just been diagnosed with will cure itself...

 

...when it doesn't and you decide to finally take action... it's already over.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Magilla