Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[m williamson]

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

You are completely wrong.

The term Southern Ireland is used extensively by people from all walks of life .

Where our views may be differing is that you are talking from a Southern Ireland perspective and I am talking from a U.K./ Northern Ireland perspective.

I can firmly assure you that the term is not used to be offensive but just to clarify the 2 different parts of the country.

And I can assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

A number of years ago my wife and I were guests at a dinner party here in Sheffield arranged by friends, the other two guests were a married couple, the husband was from Northern Ireland.

He was a QC and also an arrogant little git. When he learned that I was Anglo-Irish with family in the Republic he deliberately used the term Southern with a little smirk on his face.

I returned serve by using the derogatory term for Northern Ireland ' The Six Counties '. That wiped the smirk off his face. The thing I find amusing about that is that the term Six Counties is factually accurate, they are six counties of a nine county province. The term Southern Ireland is factually inaccurate as it extends further north than Northern Ireland. However, being a fairly reasonable person I would never use the term six counties, other than in similar circumstances to the one described.

 

You are correct in that the term Southern Ireland is used by many people, but as has been pointed out to you those people are incorrect in their use of the term. Most of them mean no insult they are merely ignorant of the misuse. others are being deliberately offensive.

The thing being that once the error has been explained most reasonable people would stop using the wrong description, unreasonable people and smart@rses would of course continue.

[harvey19]

Again you are wrong.

I have never known the term 6 counties used as an insult.

I have never known the term Southern Ireland used as an insulting term.

How do you refer to Northern Ireland, by that name or Ulster ?

I can assure that I know what I am speaking about from experience.

[cuttsie]

15 minutes ago, m williamson said:

And I can assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

A number of years ago my wife and I were guests at a dinner party here in Sheffield arranged by friends, the other two guests were a married couple, the husband was from Northern Ireland.

He was a QC and also an arrogant little git. When he learned that I was Anglo-Irish with family in the Republic he deliberately used the term Southern with a little smirk on his face.

I returned serve by using the derogatory term for Northern Ireland ' The Six Counties '. That wiped the smirk off his face. The thing I find amusing about that is that the term Six Counties is factually accurate, they are six counties of a nine county province. The term Southern Ireland is factually inaccurate as it extends further north than Northern Ireland. However, being a fairly reasonable person I would never use the term six counties, other than in similar circumstances to the one described.

 

You are correct in that the term Southern Ireland is used by many people, but as has been pointed out to you those people are incorrect in their use of the term. Most of them mean no insult they are merely ignorant of the misuse. others are being deliberately offensive.

The thing being that once the error has been explained most reasonable people would stop using the wrong description, unreasonable people and smart@rses would of course continue.

Do you believe that the North and South should be united , It seem that only a minority in the North do despite a small section of fanatics in the South , being a Englishman you can perhaps give a better prospective than most .

[m williamson]

15 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Again you are wrong.

I have never known the term 6 counties used as an insult.

I have never known the term Southern Ireland used as an insulting term.

How do you refer to Northern Ireland, by that name or Ulster ?

I can assure that I know what I am speaking about from experience.

Then your experience is totally lacking.

I refer to Northern Ireland as Northern Ireland because that's its name. Ulster is a nine county province and three of those counties are in the Republic .

You are completely wrong on this subject.

[harvey19]

37 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Then your experience is totally lacking.

I refer to Northern Ireland as Northern Ireland because that's its name. Ulster is a nine county province and three of those counties are in the Republic .

You are completely wrong on this subject.

I am not wrong at all.

Your emotional ideology is overruling your understanding of present terminally used.

Please explain why the Royal Ulster Constabulary and Ulster Defence Regiment had no jurisdiction in the counties in the south you refer to as being in Ulster.

If you look at a current map you may see Northern Ireland marked as Ulster.

By the way I spoke to someone in Southern Ireland a couple of weeks ago and their view was that they did not want a united Ireland. Ideology and reality.

PS.  Google Southern Ireland and see how many topics are revealed. Obviously the recognised name for the country.

Edited September 6, 2023 by harvey19

[m williamson]

12 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I am not wrong at all.

Your emotional ideology is overruling your understanding of present terminally used.

Please explain why the Royal Ulster Constabulary and Ulster Defence Regiment had no jurisdiction in the counties in the south you refer to as being in Ulster.

If you look at a current map you may see Northern Ireland marked as Ulster.

By the way I spoke to someone in Southern Ireland a couple of weeks ago and their view was that they did not want a united Ireland. Ideology and reality.

PS.  Google Southern Ireland and see how many topics are revealed. Obviously the recognised name for the country.

I don't have emotional ideology I have facts. Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are Ulster counties.

 Those are the four provinces of Ireland.  

 

That is the map of Ireland and Northern Ireland. As you can see three Ulster counties are in the Republic. but they still remain in Ulster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster

The RUC and UDR had no jurisdiction because they were misnamed for convenience. RTTU constabulary ( royal two thirds of Ulster constabulary ) doesn't sound as neat does it?

You spoke to one person in the Republic and they didn't want a reunited Ireland? Serious level of research there! I have an extensive family and several old school friends there and everyone of them that I've discussed the matter with wants the country Peacefully reunited.

With regard to Northern Ireland  https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

Britain also wants rid as the terms of the GFA made clear, so it's simply a matter of time.

 

Because people use the incorrect terminology to describe a place it does not make it correct does it? How can somewhere that includes the northernmost part of something be described as Southern? When you also need to add an unnecessary word to the description to make it incorrect it is beyond ridiculous.

The country is called Ireland, the statelet is called Northern Ireland and that is the correct way to describe them.

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

Do you believe that the North and South should be united , It seem that only a minority in the North do despite a small section of fanatics in the South , being a Englishman you can perhaps give a better prospective than most .

You have the wrong impression.

 

There is a substantial majority in Ireland that wish to see their country reunited, but they would like to see that take place peacefully,

The GFA was accepted by most nationalists in the North and they are working toward a peaceful reunification.

https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

 

Ireland should never have been partitioned in the first place, that was brought about and gerrymandered to suit unionists because of ' loyalist ' threats of violence. They had imported guns and ammunition from Germany and threatened insurrection.

In the Irish General Election of 1918 Sinn Fein won 73 of the 105 seats campaigning for independence .

https://www.historyireland.com/100-years-ago-the-1918-general-election/

 

That election should have been honoured by Westminster and an independent sovereign state formed. Instead the British used state force to prevent an Irish government being set up in Dublin and the Irish War of Independence began.

That led to the first successful armed struggle by the native people of a country against a colonial power, all previous defeats of colonisers being by colonists themselves, as in America.

It also provided a catalyst for other British colonies to fight for their independence.

 

Incidentally, I'm neither an Englishman nor an Irishman. I can't be English I had an Irish mother, I can't be Irish I had an English father. I thought the world of both of them and wouldn't dream of omitting either from who I am.

I'm a mongrel and perfectly happy about it. 😉

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[harvey19]

8 hours ago, m williamson said:

I don't have emotional ideology I have facts. Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are Ulster counties.

 Those are the four provinces of Ireland.  

 

That is the map of Ireland and Northern Ireland. As you can see three Ulster counties are in the Republic. but they still remain in Ulster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster

The RUC and UDR had no jurisdiction because they were misnamed for convenience. RTTU constabulary ( royal two thirds of Ulster constabulary ) doesn't sound as neat does it?

You spoke to one person in the Republic and they didn't want a reunited Ireland? Serious level of research there! I have an extensive family and several old school friends there and everyone of them that I've discussed the matter with wants the country Peacefully reunited.

With regard to Northern Ireland  https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

Britain also wants rid as the terms of the GFA made clear, so it's simply a matter of time.

 

Because people use the incorrect terminology to describe a place it does not make it correct does it? How can somewhere that includes the northernmost part of something be described as Southern? When you also need to add an unnecessary word to the description to make it incorrect it is beyond ridiculous.

The country is called Ireland, the statelet is called Northern Ireland and that is the correct way to describe them.

You once again make the mistake of stating it should not be called Southern Ireland because part of it is northerly.

This northerly part is simply part of the country called Southern Ireland.

I think unification has been on the cards since the 1970/80s but will the south want to take on the financial responsibilities and possible trouble if it becomes a reality.

You forget the lives of people lost supporting the union whilst serving the crown or as innocent civilians.

In the early 1970s I recall asking a protestant politician why there were not more Catholics in the country's ruling body at Stormont. He answered quite simply that they would probably be working towards a united Ireland and so against the way forward in the existing country.

The Roman Catholic religion which dominated in the south in many areas was always a reason the north did not want unification but now that influence is reduced.

The person I spoke to was expressing the opinion of his contemporaries not politicians or activists.

I am sorry to correct you once again but Southern Ireland is how most people refer to the country including official sources.

 

Anyhow back to the thread topic.

You criticised the Uk for not enforcing its  border controls especially routes to the UK via Southern Ireland.

Do you want the land border which exists between the north and south of Ireland to have manned passport controlled border posts ?

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by harvey19

[cuttsie]

3 hours ago, m williamson said:

You have the wrong impression.

 

There is a substantial majority in Ireland that wish to see their country reunited, but they would like to see that take place peacefully,

The GFA was accepted by most nationalists in the North and they are working toward a peaceful reunification.

https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

 

Ireland should never have been partitioned in the first place, that was brought about and gerrymandered to suit unionists because of ' loyalist ' threats of violence. They had imported guns and ammunition from Germany and threatened insurrection.

In the Irish General Election of 1918 Sinn Fein won 73 of the 105 seats campaigning for independence .

https://www.historyireland.com/100-years-ago-the-1918-general-election/

 

That election should have been honoured by Westminster and an independent sovereign state formed. Instead the British used state force to prevent an Irish government being set up in Dublin and the Irish War of Independence began.

That led to the first successful armed struggle by the native people of a country against a colonial power, all previous defeats of colonisers being by colonists themselves, as in America.

It also provided a catalyst for other British colonies to fight for their independence.

 

Incidentally, I'm neither an Englishman nor an Irishman. I can't be English I had an Irish mother, I can't be Irish I had an English father. I thought the world of both of them and wouldn't dream of omitting either from who I am.

I'm a mongrel and perfectly happy about it. 😉

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that ,as you know I have worked in the South so I got some import into how people feel .

A pal of mine Joan Cullen used to call me a Orange man when we were young    , I used to laugh and wonder what the hell she was on about  I found out when I worked in the Cork area .   

[m williamson]

10 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Thanks for that ,as you know I have worked in the South so I got some import into how people feel .

A pal of mine Joan Cullen used to call me a Orange man when we were young    , I used to laugh and wonder what the hell she was on about  I found out when I worked in the Cork area .   

The Irish are world class **** takers, they enjoy a laugh and like it to be two way.  If they're not that keen on someone they tend to be polite to them and not kid ( cod ) around with them.

Obviously she quite liked you. I got to know an actual member of the Orange Order here in Sheffield years ago, he was a mate of mines father.

Despite being an Orange man he was a nice guy and a gentleman.

The OO are a sectarian organisation which is pretty disgusting, but you have to take people as individuals and he and I got on fine.