Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I am not aware of all the details of your first paragraph or the dates  but the power in N.Ireland is not foreign.

If some of those in the north want to leave the UK they need to realise the financial benefits they will lose.

 

I have to take exception to that statement   In Bold   harvey.

Do you honestly believe that everything we took  when we were the powerful British Empire, actually  belonged to us and that we were not a foreign power.in those countries.

I am amazed and ashamed that we are still holding bits and pieces of other countries and still claiming them to be ours.  I wouldn't have expected you to be in the opposite corner.

You are of course entitled to your own views but I share many of m williamson's   feelings on this subject.

We are the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland in my opinion.

[harvey19]

19 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I have to take exception to that statement   In Bold   harvey.

Do you honestly believe that everything we took  when we were the powerful British Empire, actually  belonged to us and that we were not a foreign power.in those countries.

I am amazed and ashamed that we are still holding bits and pieces of other countries and still claiming them to be ours.  I wouldn't have expected you to be in the opposite corner.

You are of course entitled to your own views but I share many of m williamson's   feelings on this subject.

We are the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland in my opinion.

N. Ireland is part of the UK and therefore the power there is not foreign.

You are mixing up reality now and history.

1921 over 100 years ago the country was divided and maybe it is time to join it again but the views of those in the north have to be taken into consideration. Families have lived in N. Ireland for probably 5 generations and feel they belong in the U.K. / N.Ireland. The planters developed the country in many ways.

Do you wish to disregard the views of the protestants ?

The troubles in N.Ireland were horrific and so it is hard for many to accept that a terrorist campaign achieved its aim.

The ideal to unify the country is a wonderful rallying point until the southern government realise the problems they may encounter and the financial losses .

It is not as straightforward as a sentimental /emotive wish.

I have tried to be objective in my posts and maybe highlight points often overlooked.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by harvey19

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Magilla said:

Some good news at last...

 

It’s official: UK to associate to Horizon Europe:

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/horizon-europe/its-official-uk-associate-horizon-europe

 

YAY!

 

 

Sadly, the usual Brexit caveats of more for less:

 

The UK will pay in “almost €2.6 billion” a year for its participation, the announcement confirms... ~£1bn more p.a than Pre-Brexit.

 

Also, another fly in the ointment is that the UK is not going to rejoin Euratom, so is also out of ITER

 

 

Xmas dinner analogy: you bought yourselves a seat at the kiddy table 😉

 

Still…now you’re in the same room. 
 

A welcome development. Now, for more 🙌🏻

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

N. Ireland is part of the UK and therefore the power there is not foreign.

You are mixing up reality now and history.

1921 over 100 years ago the country was divided and maybe it is time to join it again but the views of those in the north have to be taken into consideration. Families have lived in N. Ireland for probably 5 generations and feel they belong in the U.K. / N.Ireland. The planters developed the country in many ways.

Do you wish to disregard the views of the protestants ?

The troubles in N.Ireland were horrific and so it is hard for many to accept that a terrorist campaign achieved its aim.

The ideal to unify the country is a wonderful rallying point until the southern government realise the problems they may encounter and the financial losses .

It is not as straightforward as a sentimental /emotive wish.

I have tried to be objective in my posts and maybe highlight points often overlooked.

 

Northern Ireland is regarded as a part of the UK by the British governmet, which doesn't mean that it is.

It was taken at gunpoint by a greater power as was Gibraltar and many other places in this world.

The world didn't begin 100 years ago and Ireland was a country in it's own right before we came along  with our usual bully tactics.

The  views of the whole nation bother me and not just those of the protestants.

 I won't even discuss unification with you because you come at it  from entirely the wrong viewpoint.

You believe that we are giving them something rather than handing back something we stole and you easily forget how many we tortured and murdered.

Would you not have fought an invader of your country ?

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Organgrinder

[harvey19]

33 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Northern Ireland is regarded as a part of the UK by the British governmet, which doesn't mean that it is.

It was taken at gunpoint by a greater power as was Gibraltar and many other places in this world.

The world didn't begin 100 years ago and Ireland was a country in it's own right before we came along  with our usual bully tactics.

The  views of the whole nation bother me and not just those of the protestants.

 I won't even discuss unification with you because you come at it  from entirely the wrong viewpoint.

You believe that we are giving them something rather than handing back something we stole and you easily forget how many we tortured and murdered.

Would you not have fought an invader of your country ?

 

 

I must confess that I do not know the complete history of our country past or know how things were done in historical days.

Obviously the views of all must be taken into consideration but the views of those who have lived in N.Ireland for centuries must not be ignored just to fulfil the ideal of reunification. Many people want to stay part of the UK.

It was the Scots who went over the water who developed the country.

Who did we torture and murder ?

Northern Ireland is pat of the UK and so accepted as such world wide.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by harvey19

[harvey19]

Shouldn't this thread be about Brexit ?

Seems as though we have strayed from the original point of people entering the Uk via Southern Ireland.

To bring it back on topic I will repeat my initial question which was,

To enforce the governments vow to secure our borders should we have passport controls on the border between north and south Ireland  to check people from EU and other countries ?

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

There are many in the north who do not want reunification and I will repeat that I have been told many in the south do not want the problems of N. Ireland brought to them.

Presumably you did not experience the Troubles personally or lost loved ones  and so may have a different perspective of things to those who lived through them.

I am not aware of all the details of your first paragraph or the dates  but the power in N.Ireland is not foreign.

If some of those in the north want to leave the UK they need to realise the financial benefits they will lose.

 

 

There are also many in Northern Ireland that do want reunification and when the time comes when they are the majority it will happen.

No, fortunately for me I didn't experience the Troubles personally but I have sympathy for those who did, from whatever background they came.

Your statement that the power in Northern Ireland is not foreign is simply incredible, and shows that you have no idea about the situation nor about the country you are talking about.

Northern Ireland is an integral part of Ireland, and Ireland is not and never has been a part of Britain.  Why do you think so many people have sacrificed their lives over the centuries in an effort to free Ireland from interference from another country?

 

What financial benefits will Northern Ireland residents lose? Ireland is wealthier than any part of the UK with the exception of the South East of England where the figures are slewed by the City of London Corporation, an autonomous jurisdiction not answerable to the laws of parliament.  https://www.worldeconomics.com/Thoughts/Has-Union-with-Britain-Been-an-Economic-Calamity-for-Northern-Ireland-V2.aspx

 

Any benefits they have accrued through paying tax to the UK will still be available to them and the future for their families will be far more favourable in a united Ireland.

 

You keep on claiming that many in the Republic don't want reunification. What is your evidence? I've provided links to polls carried out that prove differently, I've lived there, have family there and visit regularly, I have never heard any person there in over 70+ years state that they don't want their country to be reunited.

 

[harvey19]

3 hours ago, m williamson said:

If a country is occupied by a foreign power and it has attempted over many many years to persuade that foreign power to leave and stop interfering in their affairs, yet that foreign power has refused to do so, even refusing to honour a national vote for independence carried out under its jurisdiction and rules, what exactly do you think those people who wish to be free should do about it?

 

It's an old saying but a true one, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

The majority of people in the Republic want to see their country reunited. My experience of life in the Republic goes back to the fifties, I visited every year and spent up to two months there with my family. After leaving school in Sheffield we moved there and I attended a technical college there.

Most of my family are Irish and I have many friends there as well. Over all those years I've never heard a single person say they didn't want their country reunited.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/republic-of-ireland-irish-people-irish-times-mary-lou-mcdonald-b1974189.html

 

I don't believe it will happen in my lifetime and that's okay as I want it to happen as peacefully as possible. Another twenty years or so in the history of such a nation is nothing at the end of the day.

 

" Ireland is not a daughter State. She is a parent nation, The Irish are an ancient race. "

Winston Churchill speech 1948

Another saying is that...Anyone who says they understand the Irish problem does not understand it !

As I have said previously I think reunification will happen but it may be 2 generations away when the Troubles are history and all survivors of them are past just like the 1950s campaign faded away.

All over the world most people just want to live an happy and peaceful life.

 

[m williamson]

10 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Shouldn't this thread be about Brexit ?

Seems as though we have strayed from the original point of people entering the Uk via Southern Ireland.

To bring it back on topic I will repeat my initial question which was,

To enforce the governments vow to secure our borders should we have passport controls on the border between north and south Ireland  to check people from EU and other countries ?

That horse has ridden, it's not going to happen, it never could have happened, it would have meant a return to violence by providing a physical target for dissidents.

The fact that it was even discussed shows how uninformed people including British politicians were/are.

 

 

4 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Another saying is that...Anyone who says they understand the Irish problem does not understand it !

As I have said previously I think reunification will happen but it may be 2 generations away when the Troubles are history and all survivors of them are past just like the 1950s campaign faded away.

All over the world most people just want to live an happy and peaceful life.

 

That was the plan, allow generations to pass and achieve reunification peacefully. Brexit altered that, it all came to a head again. Perhaps the Brexiteers should have taken that into consideration but I doubt they gave it a single thought.

[harvey19]

3 minutes ago, m williamson said:

There are also many in Northern Ireland that do want reunification and when the time comes when they are the majority it will happen.

No, fortunately for me I didn't experience the Troubles personally but I have sympathy for those who did, from whatever background they came.

Your statement that the power in Northern Ireland is not foreign is simply incredible, and shows that you have no idea about the situation nor about the country you are talking about.

Northern Ireland is an integral part of Ireland, and Ireland is not and never has been a part of Britain.  Why do you think so many people have sacrificed their lives over the centuries in an effort to free Ireland from interference from another country?

 

What financial benefits will Northern Ireland residents lose? Ireland is wealthier than any part of the UK with the exception of the South East of England where the figures are slewed by the City of London Corporation, an autonomous jurisdiction not answerable to the laws of parliament.  https://www.worldeconomics.com/Thoughts/Has-Union-with-Britain-Been-an-Economic-Calamity-for-Northern-Ireland-V2.aspx

 

Any benefits they have accrued through paying tax to the UK will still be available to them and the future for their families will be far more favourable in a united Ireland.

 

You keep on claiming that many in the Republic don't want reunification. What is your evidence? I've provided links to polls carried out that prove differently, I've lived there, have family there and visit regularly, I have never heard any person there in over 70+ years state that they don't want their country to be reunited.

 

Northern Ireland is part of the Uk I just do not understand how anyone can deny this. As a result the power comes from Westminster via Stormont and enforced by crown forces when necessary.

To turn your quote around, why do you think so many soldiers, policemen died since 1969 supporting the crown.

We could go on back and forward about the situation but one thing I am sure of is that we know very little of what is going on behind the scenes.

I think we have exhausted the subject and will just have to wait and see.