Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[L00b]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

How many have arrived in Luxembourg as a percentage of population and percentage of those arriving in the UK ?

What’s Luxembourg got to do with the point made?

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

Accept ????????  does not look that way to me , and most do not want to stop there 

Read the link? If you don’t like the source, maybe Google the issue independently?

 

Thousands upon thousands of search results linking to official statistics and articles based on same validating the point made (that tweet is simply a convenient summary - a very brief one).

 

The very vast majority of asylum seekers reaching Europe stop long before hitting the Calais beaches, never mind the fraction that makes it to GB shores, indeed.
 

Or keep swallowing your government’s hyperbole, makes no difference to me: I’m just countering the falsehoods in your earlier post with facts, I’m not desperate to change your mind.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

My very last post on the subject.

In 1921 a treaty was agreed on to divide Ireland.

If you are aware of the wording of part of the  treaty you may realise why there has been continued trouble.

 

We should have handed it back way before 1921   -   It's not ours     in the same way as Ukraine is not Russia's

[harvey19]

21 minutes ago, L00b said:

What’s Luxembourg got to do with the point made?

Everything,  when you are comparing countries why not include Luxembourg.

[cuttsie]

40 minutes ago, L00b said:

What’s Luxembourg got to do with the point made?

Read the link? If you don’t like the source, maybe Google the issue independently?

 

Thousands upon thousands of search results linking to official statistics and articles based on same validating the point made (that tweet is simply a convenient summary - a very brief one).

 

The very vast majority of asylum seekers reaching Europe stop long before hitting the Calais beaches, never mind the fraction that makes it to GB shores, indeed.
 

Or keep swallowing your government’s hyperbole, makes no difference to me: I’m just countering the falsehoods in your earlier post with facts, I’m not desperate to change your mind.

Thank you

25 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

We should have handed it back way before 1921   -   It's not ours     in the same way as Ukraine is not Russia

And the Falklands are not Argentinian. Or are they .

Edited September 8, 2023 by cuttsie

[Axe]

35 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

We should have handed it back way before 1921   -   It's not ours     in the same way as Ukraine is not Russia's

Not the same at all.  The United Nations says Northern Ireland is part of the UK.  

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

And the Falklands are not Argentinian. Or are they .

There is a lot of controversy over The Falklands, even including The Pope.  In my opinion,  Argentina has more right to the Falklands than we have.

My personal opinion counts for nothing but, I try to be fair and that's how I see it.

 

4 minutes ago, Axe said:

Not the same at all.  The United Nations says Northern Ireland is part of the UK.  

Please yourself   -   It's still not as I see it and I'm entitled to my opinion as you are.

Tell the UN to get Israel out of the west Bank and Putin out of Ukraine.

[m williamson]

4 hours ago, harvey19 said:

Every soldier/police officer is some mothers son or daughter  not just a uniform.

Many were murdered and maimed  by premeditated criminal acts as were innocent civilians.

The politicians are the people pulling the strings and are the ones to find solutions.

 

My last post regarding N. Ireland and so back to Brexit.

 

I still maintain Brexit was correct and look forward to the 10 year celebration party to celebrate democracy  its contribution to the success of our country.😀

 

Every soldier and police officer signed up and took an oath to carry out the orders which they receive from their superiors who take their orders from those above them.

They do not have the right to question the legitimacy or moral correctness of those orders. They have signed away their right to free will whilst on duty.

Whilst I have sympathy for them they are totally responsible for placing themselves in that position and I reserve more of my sympathy for the innocents who lost their lives or were maimed going about trying to live their lives without causing problems for others.

If you walk about in another mans land with a gun in your hand imposing the laws of a different country upon the citizens when it has been made perfectly clear that the majority in that country don't want you there then it is what it is.

My father served throughout WW2 and saw action in France, North Africa and Italy. His elder half brother served throughout WW1 in the Royal Navy. Their first cousin served in the 12th Battalion York & Lancs and was killed on the first day of the Somme in 1916, he was 19 years of age.

I've visited my cousins grave in Luke Copse War Cemetery, Serre, Picardy and called in at Dunkirk on the way back to see the beach where my father spent five ' interesting ' days in early June 1940.

I have nothing against soldiers but I know the difference between right and wrong.

 

You voted Leave?  And despite the obvious failure to bring any benefits and the obvious damage that has been done to the country's economy and international reputation you still think that it was a good idea?

 

https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-june-2022

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output

 

You understand that in a democracy nothing is set in stone and people are allowed to vote to change their mind don't you?

 

 

[L00b]

59 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Everything,  when you are comparing countries why not include Luxembourg.

and every other EU member state besides France, Germany and Luxembourg, plus the non-EU states that take in the bulk of refugees before a fraction of them ever moves on towards Europe?

 

Do your own homework, I’m not building your straw man for you.

[harvey19]

23 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Every soldier and police officer signed up and took an oath to carry out the orders which they receive from their superiors who take their orders from those above them.

They do not have the right to question the legitimacy or moral correctness of those orders. They have signed away their right to free will whilst on duty.

Whilst I have sympathy for them they are totally responsible for placing themselves in that position and I reserve more of my sympathy for the innocents who lost their lives or were maimed going about trying to live their lives without causing problems for others.

If you walk about in another mans land with a gun in your hand imposing the laws of a different country upon the citizens when it has been made perfectly clear that the majority in that country don't want you there then it is what it is.

My father served throughout WW2 and saw action in France, North Africa and Italy. His elder half brother served throughout WW1 in the Royal Navy. Their first cousin served in the 12th Battalion York & Lancs and was killed on the first day of the Somme in 1916, he was 19 years of age.

I've visited my cousins grave in Luke Copse War Cemetery, Serre, Picardy and called in at Dunkirk on the way back to see the beach where my father spent five ' interesting ' days in early June 1940.

I have nothing against soldiers but I know the difference between right and wrong.

 

You voted Leave?  And despite the obvious failure to bring any benefits and the obvious damage that has been done to the country's economy and international reputation you still think that it was a good idea?

 

https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-june-2022

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output

 

You understand that in a democracy nothing is set in stone and people are allowed to vote to change their mind don't you?

 

 

A soldier has what is called a redress of grievance.

Soldiers were in Northern Ireland to help maintain law and order and protect the population from terrorists.

The majority did want law and order which the army were helping to maintain.

You did not live in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and so do not have the experiences of those who did nor have you experienced the fear and dreadful experiences of those who did.  It is easy to criticise from the comfort of an armchair.

In WW2 the enemy was obvious and the Geneva Convention applied.

Finally I think the troops should have been withdrawn earlier and the police took full control, the only problem was that the IRA were killing policemen.

 

 

23 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Every soldier and police officer signed up and took an oath to carry out the orders which they receive from their superiors who take their orders from those above them.

They do not have the right to question the legitimacy or moral correctness of those orders. They have signed away their right to free will whilst on duty.

Whilst I have sympathy for them they are totally responsible for placing themselves in that position and I reserve more of my sympathy for the innocents who lost their lives or were maimed going about trying to live their lives without causing problems for others.

If you walk about in another mans land with a gun in your hand imposing the laws of a different country upon the citizens when it has been made perfectly clear that the majority in that country don't want you there then it is what it is.

My father served throughout WW2 and saw action in France, North Africa and Italy. His elder half brother served throughout WW1 in the Royal Navy. Their first cousin served in the 12th Battalion York & Lancs and was killed on the first day of the Somme in 1916, he was 19 years of age.

I've visited my cousins grave in Luke Copse War Cemetery, Serre, Picardy and called in at Dunkirk on the way back to see the beach where my father spent five ' interesting ' days in early June 1940.

I have nothing against soldiers but I know the difference between right and wrong.

 

You voted Leave?  And despite the obvious failure to bring any benefits and the obvious damage that has been done to the country's economy and international reputation you still think that it was a good idea?

 

https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-june-2022

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output

 

You understand that in a democracy nothing is set in stone and people are allowed to vote to change their mind don't you?

 

 

Why not stop looking for fault and look to the future possibilities.

Ref a democracy and voting how would you feel if there was a referendum and the people in N. Ireland voted to stay as part of the UK ?

5 minutes ago, L00b said:

and every other EU member state besides France, Germany and Luxembourg, plus the non-EU states that take in the bulk of refugees before a fraction of them ever moves on towards Europe?

 

Do your own homework, I’m not building your straw man for you.

You are usually keen to post links etc. to support your views, why not in this case ?

Edited September 8, 2023 by harvey19

[m williamson]

12 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

A soldier has what is called a redress of grievance.

Soldiers were in Northern Ireland to help maintain law and order and protect the population from terrorists.

The majority did want law and order which the army were helping to maintain.

You did not live in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and so do not have the experiences of those who did nor have you experienced the fear and dreadful experiences of those who did.  It is easy to criticise from the comfort of an armchair.

In WW2 the enemy was obvious and the Geneva Convention applied.

Finally I think the troops should have been withdrawn earlier and the police took full control, the only problem was that the IRA were killing policemen.

 

 

Why not stop looking for fault and look to the future possibilities.

Ref a democracy and voting how would you feel if there was a referendum and the people in N. Ireland voted to stay as part of the UK ?

You are usually keen to post links etc. to support your views, why not in this case ?

They were not helping to maintain law and order when they murdered unarmed civilians at Ballymurphy and at Derry on Bloody Sunday. Nor were they maintaining law and order when they colluded with the Tyrone UVF to bomb Dublin and Monaghan on the same day.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/victims/docs/newspapers/sunday_business_post/heatley_spb_040207.pdf

It's not in anyway surprising that the British government is passing a Legacy Bill in order to prevent further investigation into killings during the Troubles. Every Northern Ireland political party both Unionist and Nationalist is against it but the British government is going to go ahead anyway.  Only one explanation for that, they're covering up collusion. 

https://www.sluggerotoole.com/2023/09/07/controversy-legacy-bill-passes-through-commons/

 

If the people in NI vote to remain in the UK then they will do so, at least until the next border poll. that's what it says in the GFA and I agree with it.

 

As for looking for fault regarding Brexit please point out to me the actual benefit we're getting, or going to get, because so far it's been an unmitigated disaster.

' Take Back Control ' the only control we'd given up were the terms and conditions of trade agreements which we had signed up to. We've now joined another Trade Bloc on the other side of the planet and we're having to accept terms and conditions they already had in place without our input. We also have to agree to the terms and conditions of every other trade agreement we sign and also pay more for inclusion in projects which we were part of as EU members. We've lost more control and it's costing us a fortune.

Please do point out the benefits I'm desperate to hear them.