Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[harvey19]

3 minutes ago, m williamson said:

No, I didn't state that, because I haven't ever had two passports. What I do have  - for about  the third time of telling - is dual nationality by right of birth.

I chose to get an Irish passport when I first required one in 1972 and have renewed that passport as the years have gone by. That makes me an Irish citizen. So no I DON'T AGREE that my nationality is British full stop. Do you understand what Dual Nationality means?

 

I've already commented on the birth certificate situation at # 6715 which was a reply to you didn't you read it?

 

There were troubles in the 1950s? There have been troubles in Ireland ever since the Anglo Normans invaded in 1169 over 850 years ago!

The people who rule this island appear to be slow learners. The Irish wish to run their own affairs, Ireland is an older nation than England and will not accept interference without protest.

My reply 6720 dealt with your post 6715.

Almost anyone with Irish ancestry can get an Irish passport, even N.Ireland people.

Do you acknowledge the republican movement committed more atrocities than the forces of the Crown. ?

I do not wish to sound condescending but you have no idea what life was like in N. Ireland during the troubles unless you experienced them yourself.

 

6 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Then blame Gusty Spence and the ' loyalist ' UVF.  https://alphahistory.com/northernireland/gusty-spence/

 

Look at the timeline, see who started the last round of Troubles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Troubles 

Look at the reaction of the catholic community when the troops first arrived.

[m williamson]

4 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

The biggest problem in the World is to many people , If its racist to say so then you are right . 

Certain community's and religions encourage this ,  Do not know if its still the policy in the Catholic church or not , but if it is then in my opinion its plainly stupid . We are now like lemmings jumping of a cliff as per the migrants escaping the poverty in Country's where the life span of children is hit and miss . Racist Bigot tell the IRA sympathisers that when they  used drag people from their home to lonely beach where they disappeared .  The crime was just giving a cuppa to soldier or dating one , you do not get more racist than that .

The entire population of the world could fit inside Texas. They wouldn't be able to live like that of course but they could all fit there.

The problem isn't too many people ( although the better off people get the fewer children they tend to have ) the problem is the concentration on wealth acquisition by the few and spending trillions on warfare, armament production and supply instead of food, water and shelter being the priority.

Some of the actions of the IRA and their sympathisers were unforgivable but before you get too absorbed in their actions take into consideration the actions of the Glennane Gang , the Shankill Butchers and elements of the state security forces each of whom murdered innocent civilians. None of that is excusable. but it wasn't all one way and the ' loyalists' began the targeting of civilians.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Axe said:

 

I was referring to the reforming of the IRA in the late 1960's  which was a terrorists group consisting  of and supported by low lifes.

You know nothing of the subject you are arguing about.

In 1957, I was in the British Army guarding British army camps from IRA Raiders who were doing lightning raids on British Army camps to steal weapons from the armouries.

Although live ammunition was not normally used for guard duties in peacetime,  we were issued with live ammunition to take on the IRA.

Not a lot was said about this development in order not to inflame the situation but I  can assure you that I was there. and that the IRA has existed in various guises since around 1920.

You would do well not to argue about subjects you know nothing about.

 

[harvey19]

4 minutes ago, m williamson said:

The entire population of the world could fit inside Texas. They wouldn't be able to live like that of course but they could all fit there.

The problem isn't too many people ( although the better off people get the fewer children they tend to have ) the problem is the concentration on wealth acquisition by the few and spending trillions on warfare, armament production and supply instead of food, water and shelter being the priority.

Some of the actions of the IRA and their sympathisers were unforgivable but before you get too absorbed in their actions take into consideration the actions of the Glennane Gang , the Shankill Butchers and elements of the state security forces each of whom murdered innocent civilians. None of that is excusable. but it wasn't all one way and the ' loyalists' began the targeting of civilians.

For goodness sake stop trying to justify republican atrocities by highlighting loyalist crimes.

Dreadful crimes were committed but look at the stats.

 

[harvey19]

7 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You know nothing of the subject you are arguing about.

In 1957, I was in the British Army guarding British army camps from IRA Raiders who were doing lightning raids on British Army camps to steal weapons from the armouries.

Although live ammunition was not normally used for guard duties in peacetime,  we were issued with live ammunition to take on the IRA.

Not a lot was said about this development in order not to inflame the situation but I  can assure you that I was there. and that the IRA has existed in various guises since around 1920.

You would do well not to argue about subjects you know nothing about.

 

Ready to lay down your life forQueen and Country !!!!!!

Sorry but I couldn't resist.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

Ready to lay down your life forQueen and Country !!!!!!

Sorry but I couldn't resist.

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make with that remark but don't bother trying to resist anyway.  Makes no difference whatsoever what you think.

 

[harvey19]

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make with that remark but don't bother trying to resist anyway.  Makes no difference whatsoever what you think.

 

Thought it would give you a laugh after you saying you have a different outlook on things from when you were young.

No offence meant at all.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

For goodness sake stop trying to justify republican atrocities by highlighting loyalist crimes.

Dreadful crimes were committed but look at the stats.

 

Crimes were committed by both sides and against ordinary innocent civilians.

There were no winners then and there are no winners now.

There are though,  a lot of loose mouths, who know only what they read through google,  who love stirring it up again.

We are all out of order because this thread is about Brexit.  It's just unfortunate that NI has problems because off Brexit 

              

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

Thought it would give you a laugh after you saying you have a different outlook on things from when you were young.

No offence meant at all.

At that time I,  like any soldier,  did everything I was ordered to do   -   as was fit and proper.

I'm pointing out that as you go through life,  you learn more,  become more aware off things you never considered before,  and see the true worth of people you would once have honoured.

Doesn't matter anyway.

[m williamson]

11 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

My reply 6720 dealt with your post 6715.

Almost anyone with Irish ancestry can get an Irish passport, even N.Ireland people.

Do you acknowledge the republican movement committed more atrocities than the forces of the Crown. ?

I do not wish to sound condescending but you have no idea what life was like in N. Ireland during the troubles unless you experienced them yourself.

 

Look at the reaction of the catholic community when the troops first arrived.

Your reply at # 6720 did not deal with it. In fact your reply made little sense. The point was put to you that the people I listed were all born somewhere other than the country and nationality they are accepted as belonging to. Do you therefore accept that a birth certificate does not tell the full story as you appeared to suggest?

 

By the logic used in your ' no idea what life was like ' comment presumably you discount any historical information unless the person imparting it was actually present when the event(s) took place?

I have worked with ex soldiers who served in Northern Ireland, had an interesting conversation with John Stalker a number of years ago and because of my Irish connection took an interest in what was going on during the period. I don't profess to know everything about it but I do know the basics and the history leading up to it.

The Catholic community were pleased to see the original arrival of the troops because the ' loyalists ' who began the violence were deliberately targeting Catholic civilians.

 

As far as who committed the atrocities is concerned studies have been done on what happened. http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/100102/1/Hughes_and_Ahmadov_accepted_2019_Irish_Political_Studies._complete_manuscript.civilian_victimisation.pdf

LSE study, if you want to save time scroll down to page 15 and start reading at the heading Northern Ireland's " Long War "

 

 

[harvey19]

13 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Crimes were committed by both sides and against ordinary innocent civilians.

There were no winners then and there are no winners now.

There are though,  a lot of loose mouths, who know only what they read through google,  who love stirring it up again.

We are all out of order because this thread is about Brexit.  It's just unfortunate that NI has problems because off Brexit 

Well said. 

13 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

              

At that time I,  like any soldier,  did everything I was ordered to do   -   as was fit and proper.

I'm pointing out that as you go through life,  you learn more,  become more aware off things you never considered before,  and see the true worth of people you would once have honoured.

Doesn't matter anyway.

When I was in my teens I recall my uncle saying there was corruption in all walks of life.

It meant nothing to me at the time but as I have got older I have thought about what he said.