Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Axe]

1 hour ago, geared said:

Didn't you just say:

 

 

From what I remember, Labour MP's and Boris voted the same way on those occasions, so you can't have it both ways.

 

They were either blocking the implementation or they were not.

Already explained Boris Johnson voted against the withdrawal agreement because he preferred the default option of leaving the EU without a deal.  The ERG also preferred to leave the EU without a deal.  MPs who supported the UK leaving the EU by the default option of no deal  rather than Theresa May's deal were not blocking Brexit.  Labour MPs voted against the withdrawal agreement because they wanted to prevent the UK leaving the EU.  The UK should have left the EU in March 2019 by the default option of no deal.  However, parliament moved the goalposts and would not allow the UK to leave the EU without a deal.  When Boris Johnson became prime minister he withdraw the whip from all the Tory MPs who wanted to block Brexit.  Boris Johnson wanted to have a general election in October 2019 in order to get the support to get Brexit implemented however the Labour party blocked a general election happening in order to stop the UK leaving the EU. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, geared said:

I seem to remember Boris voting against several of May's Brexit plans as well.

So he did,  but It was still a Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum,  A second Tory Prime minister who tried to get Brexit through,  and a third Tory Prime minister who brought us out..

How can Brexit be other than a Tory Brexit.  Johnson only voted against Theresa May's deal,  not because he was against Brexit.

The argument is,    was Brexit  a Tory Party move or not.  and  YES IT WAS.     Axe said in post #6809 that it was never a Tory Party  policy and I said it wasn't anyone else's policy.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Organgrinder

[Guest]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

The people wanted Brexit.. End of story.

It damn well isn't end of story.

How did we know who wanted Brexit,  until we had the referendum which was called by  a TORY Prime Minister  -  not Labour.

None of you are going to get away with blaming Labour for Brexit and I don't even like todays Labour and will not vote for them but I do like the truth.

 

[m williamson]

The House of Commons Library produced a briefing providing details on what a No Deal Brexit would mean to the country.

Their findings are shown in the link below under the heading  No deal in practice. 

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8397/

 

Only a complete fool who has no regard for the country's welfare or a selfish opportunist such as Rees-Mogg who would profit from it would consider such self inflicted damage.

[Axe]

24 minutes ago, m williamson said:

The House of Commons Library produced a briefing providing details on what a No Deal Brexit would mean to the country.

Their findings are shown in the link below under the heading  No deal in practice. 

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8397/

 

Only a complete fool who has no regard for the country's welfare or a selfish opportunist such as Rees-Mogg who would profit from it would consider such self inflicted damage.

When MPs voted in favour of triggering Article50 they did so in the knowledge that leaving the EU without a deal was the default legal option.

Quote

MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way. They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.1 Feb 2017

Only a fool would take the option of walking away from any deal off the table.  

 

41 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

So he did,  but It was still a Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum,  A second Tory Prime minister who tried to get Brexit through,  and a third Tory Prime minister who brought us out..

How can Brexit be other than a Tory Brexit.  Johnson only voted against Theresa May's deal,  not because he was against Brexit.

The argument is,    was Brexit  a Tory Party move or not.  and  YES IT WAS.     Axe said in post #6809 that it was never a Tory Party  policy and I said it wasn't anyone else's policy.

 

More nonsense.  It was parliament who gave approval to hold the EU referendum.

 

Quote

MPs have overwhelmingly backed plans for a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union.

The vote, which followed the first debate on the EU Referendum Bill, means the legislation moves to the next stage of its progress through Parliament.

Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said a "generation" had been denied a say on the UK's place in Europe, and the public must now have the "final say".

MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the bill.

The Conservatives and Labour support the bill, but the SNP opposes it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33067157

Edited September 21, 2023 by Axe

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Axe said:

 

 

More nonsense.  It was parliament who gave approval to hold the EU referendum.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33067157

More ducking and diving from a desperate Axe,  in a further effort to avoid admitting he's wrong.  .   You are still trying to muddy the waters.   

Of course it was parliament who gave approval for the referendum.  That's because nobody else could have given that approval except our parliament..

David Cameron was the Tory Prime Minister who asked parliament for that approval,   having promised a referendum on leaving Europe back in 2013.

It was members of the Tory party who wanted to leave Europe   -   They who called for the referendum and   -   They who completed the job   -   in a very messy fashion. 

You've tried to blame it on Labour who couldn't have done it even if they wanted to.     You've tried to blame it on the public who also couldn't have done it either.

Why did Cameron promise a referendum in 2013 ?         It was a Tory government from start to finish whether you stop lying and admit it or not.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Organgrinder

[Axe]

25 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

More ducking and diving from a desperate Axe,  in a further effort to avoid admitting he's wrong.  .   You are still trying to muddy the waters.   

Of course it was parliament who gave approval for the referendum.  That's because nobody else could have given that approval except our parliament..

David Cameron was the Tory Prime Minister who asked parliament for that approval,   having promised a referendum on leaving Europe back in 2013.

It was members of the Tory party who wanted to leave Europe   -   They who called for the referendum and   -   They who completed the job   -   in a very messy fashion. 

You've tried to blame it on Labour who couldn't have done it even if they wanted to.     You've tried to blame it on the public who also couldn't have done it either.

Why did Cameron promise a referendum in 2013 ?         It was a Tory government from start to finish whether you stop lying and admit it or not.

 

Stop contributing nonsense.  David Cameron knew it was the correct democratic thing to do to give Scotland an independence referendum due to the amount of seats the SNP had won in the Scottish parliament and to the give the UK an EU referendum due to the amount of seats UKIP won in the European Parliament. David Cameron campaigned for Scotland to stay part of the UK and for the UK to remain in the EU.  I have provided evidence to show both the Labour Party and the Tory party overwhelmingly supported holding the EU referendum and both parties later overwhelmingly supported triggering article 50 knowing leaving the EU without a deal was the default legal position.  I also provided evidence to prove it was made perfectly clear before the EU referendum vote that UK would leave the single market if the electorate voted to leave the EU.  Unlike you and the terrorist sympathiser I do not attempt to rewrite history and contribute honest facts to the discussion. I do not need to do any ducking and diving because I know the true facts and respect democracy. The Tory government deserve  credit for supporting democracy by giving both the Scottish people and the whole of the UK the opportunity to decide two big issues in the form of referendums and then implement the choice the electorate made.

[harvey19]

It is all water under the bridge and as I said earlier the people wanted Brexit.

I could not see the point in voting for MPs if laws were being made in Europe.

Democracy was practiced and we should all be proud of Brexit because of this.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

It is all water under the bridge and as I said earlier the people wanted Brexit.

I could not see the point in voting for MPs if laws were being made in Europe.

Democracy was practiced and we should all be proud of Brexit because of this.

It's certainly water under the bridge now but people like myself don't dismiss such a calamitous mistake so quickly and easily whilst airily pretending that everything's fine,  OR WILL BE.

The laws which were made in Europe were not made for us. Our own Euro MP's had a full part in their formation. Most of those laws were very good ones and much needed such as re-pollution.

Democracy was practised on the basis of lies and misinformation and we should be ashamed of what's happened to our so called democracy.

 

3 hours ago, Axe said:

Stop contributing nonsense.  David Cameron knew it was the correct democratic thing to do to give Scotland an independence referendum due to the amount of seats the SNP had won in the Scottish parliament and to the give the UK an EU referendum due to the amount of seats UKIP won in the European Parliament. David Cameron campaigned for Scotland to stay part of the UK and for the UK to remain in the EU.  I have provided evidence to show both the Labour Party and the Tory party overwhelmingly supported holding the EU referendum and both parties later overwhelmingly supported triggering article 50 knowing leaving the EU without a deal was the default legal position.  I also provided evidence to prove it was made perfectly clear before the EU referendum vote that UK would leave the single market if the electorate voted to leave the EU.  Unlike you and the terrorist sympathiser I do not attempt to rewrite history and contribute honest facts to the discussion. I do not need to do any ducking and diving because I know the true facts and respect democracy. The Tory government deserve  credit for supporting democracy by giving both the Scottish people and the whole of the UK the opportunity to decide two big issues in the form of referendums and then implement the choice the electorate made.

I'm not interested in what Cameron knew and haven't read the rest of your rubbish.

The argument was that the Tories were the ones who took us out of Europe and you tried to deny that.    It makes no difference who "supported"  it   -   it was the doing of the Tories.

Why not admit it ?     because you are  as dishonourable as the useless party you support.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Organgrinder

[altus]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

It's certainly water under the bridge now but people like myself don't dismiss such a calamitous mistake so quickly and easily whilst airily pretending that everything's fine,  OR WILL BE.

The laws which were made in Europe were not made for us. Our on Euro MP's had a full part in their formation. Most of those laws were very good ones and much needed such as re-pollution.

And in almost every case, those laws were voted for by more of our MEPs than voted against. That fact alone undermines the 'laws imposed by the EU' whinging. Despite being challenged multiple times, brexit supporters still haven't managed to name an EU law we had to implement that was not supported by our MEPs.

 

The idea that brexit was anything other than a Tory project is ridiculous. If it had have been cross party, the Tories would have allowed other parties, particularly Labour, to play a meaningful part in deciding what form brexit would take. They didn't because they wanted to take all the credit for brexit. As a result of that, they get to take responsibility for all the consequences - desirable or not.