Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[sadbrewer]

On 21/09/2023 at 14:18, Organgrinder said:

It damn well isn't end of story.

How did we know who wanted Brexit,  until we had the referendum which was called by  a TORY Prime Minister  -  not Labour.

None of you are going to get away with blaming Labour for Brexit and I don't even like todays Labour and will not vote for them but I do like the truth.

 

OG, I certainly get the point you are trying to make, that Brexit wasn't Labour or Lib Dem policy...  however it seems forgotten now but the fact is that in 2015 the Labour Party supported the holding of the referendum, and voted in The European Union Referendum Act  for it to happen.. as did the Lib Dems, only the Scot Nats opposed it.

" The proposals were contained in the Conservative Party manifesto for the 2015 general election; the Labour and Lib Dem parties had also made previous election manifesto commitments to an EU referendum but no commitment was made by these parties to the holding of any such referendum in the event they won the 2015 general election.^[10] On the Bill's second reading, on 9 June 2015, MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the principle of holding a referendum with only the Scottish National Party opposing the Bill,^[11] and by 316 votes to 53 on its third reading in the Commons on 7 September 2015.^[5]"

[harvey19]

13 hours ago, m williamson said:

You keep promising, but just like the corrupt, incompetent, lying Tory party you fail to keep your word.

It is   posters like Axe that keep the forum interesting and readable.

He strikes me as an intelligent  and well read person who enjoys a debate.

Without such diverse opinions and views the forum would become boring.

Long live debate and the airing of different viewpoints.  

 

[m williamson]

4 hours ago, harvey19 said:

It is   posters like Axe that keep the forum interesting and readable.

He strikes me as an intelligent  and well read person who enjoys a debate.

Without such diverse opinions and views the forum would become boring.

Long live debate and the airing of different viewpoints.  

 

I have no problem with anyone taking a different point of view. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything, and quite often things aren't black and white there are shades of grey and opposing points of view are natural.

However, when someone provides a verifiable fact then an intelligent person would accept it and adjust their opinion accordingly.

They would not choose to ignore it and carry on as before.

 

In my opinion of course.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

OG, I certainly get the point you are trying to make, that Brexit wasn't Labour or Lib Dem policy...  however it seems forgotten now but the fact is that in 2015 the Labour Party supported the holding of the referendum, and voted in The European Union Referendum Act  for it to happen.. as did the Lib Dems, only the Scot Nats opposed it.

" The proposals were contained in the Conservative Party manifesto for the 2015 general election; the Labour and Lib Dem parties had also made previous election manifesto commitments to an EU referendum but no commitment was made by these parties to the holding of any such referendum in the event they won the 2015 general election.^[10] On the Bill's second reading, on 9 June 2015, MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the principle of holding a referendum with only the Scottish National Party opposing the Bill,^[11] and by 316 votes to 53 on its third reading in the Commons on 7 September 2015.^[5]"

That's quite correct and it should be plain that,  if they had either ignored or opposed it,  it could have cost them  dearly at the polls.

Had the Tories not set it in motion, you would not have heard a peep from Labour,  but  once it became the most important subject of the time,  it had to be faced.

Labour did,  under Jeremy Corbyn,  try their best to sit on the fence for a long time,  and then later switched to suggesting a second referendum instead and talking up Customs Union membership.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Organgrinder

[Axe]

1 hour ago, m williamson said:

I have no problem with anyone taking a different point of view. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything, and quite often things aren't black and white there are shades of grey and opposing points of view are natural.

However, when someone provides a verifiable fact then an intelligent person would accept it and adjust their opinion accordingly.

They would not choose to ignore it and carry on as before.

 

In my opinion of course.

You have no credibility to accuse anyone of not accepting verifiable facts when you still refuse to acknowledge if was made perfectly clear the UK would leave the single market if the UK left the EU.  Millions of  voters chose the leave option on the ballot paper because they wanted to end free movement of people which would happen if the UK left the EU and  the single market.  It is not leave voters who are complaining about leaving the single market because the knew that was a consequence of leaving the EU.  Respectable remain voters accept leaving the EU meant also leaving the single market. It is only dishonest remain voters such as yourself who do not accept it was made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU.  Perhaps I am giving you too much credit by calling you dishonest and you are an unintelligent person who carries on claiming it was not made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU despite the fact the verifiable fact was presented to you.

 

 

[m williamson]

6 minutes ago, Axe said:

You have no credibility to accuse anyone of not accepting verifiable facts when you still refuse to acknowledge if was made perfectly clear the UK would leave the single market if the UK left the EU.  Millions of  voters chose the leave option on the ballot paper because they wanted to end free movement of people which would happen if the UK left the EU and  the single market.  It is not leave voters who are complaining about leaving the single market because the knew that was a consequence of leaving the EU.  Respectable remain voters accept leaving the EU meant also leaving the single market. It is only dishonest remain voters such as yourself who do not accept it was made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU.  Perhaps I am giving you too much credit by calling you dishonest and you are an unintelligent person who carries on claiming it was not made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU despite the fact the verifiable fact was presented to you.

 

 

I have to disagree with harvey19 and his opinion with regard to your intelligence. Your inability to understand what is being pointed out to you is incredible.

Your contention was that the inevitability of having to leave the Single Market if we left the EU was made perfectly clear. No it wasn't.

 

Conservative Members of Parliament went on record and said it wouldn't happen. One even went so far as to say that it would be madness to do so.

So how could it possibly be Made Perfectly Clear when members of the governing party were stating opposite opinions? MPs discussing the consequences of Brexit and contradicting themselves is the very opposite of clarity.

Your inability to comprehend that perfectly straightforward fact casts serious doubt on your logic capability.

 

There were non EU member countries in the Single Market at the time of Brexit and therefore no reason to prevent the UK continuing its membership after leaving. 

 

Posting videos of the congenital liar Johnson saying something ( Anything ) and expecting anyone to accept that as fact is simply ridiculous.

 

 

[L00b]

Good grief, are you guys still arguing about who said what 7 years ago?

After 7 years, no one is ever going to convince the Brexit zealots or the idiots. Their cognitive bias is 6 feet thick, of solid titanium. Leave them where they’re happy to be, ignore them and let old age do the work for you.

 

Brexit is done. The UK has been out of the EU for over 2 years. Nobody but the UK press and government gives a damn much, anymore. And positively noone outside the UK.

 

The UK is where it is, and consequences continue to accrue because of it. Move the discussion on.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Axe said:

You have no credibility to accuse anyone of not accepting verifiable facts when you still refuse to acknowledge if was made perfectly clear the UK would leave the single market if the UK left the EU.  Millions of  voters chose the leave option on the ballot paper because they wanted to end free movement of people which would happen if the UK left the EU and  the single market.  It is not leave voters who are complaining about leaving the single market because the knew that was a consequence of leaving the EU.  Respectable remain voters accept leaving the EU meant also leaving the single market. It is only dishonest remain voters such as yourself who do not accept it was made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU.  Perhaps I am giving you too much credit by calling you dishonest and you are an unintelligent person who carries on claiming it was not made clear the UK would leave the single market after leaving the EU despite the fact the verifiable fact was presented to you.

 

 

If you respect Andrew Marr's  opinion.,   go on YouTube and watch his video Brexit Britain is crumbling

 

Never thought I'd say this but, after seeing Sunak's performance as PM and the way he's taking Britain backwards.

I could almost begin to like Johnson,   but we can't have a rule breaker and liar making rules for us.

   

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Organgrinder

[m williamson]

39 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

If you respect Andrew Marr's  opinion.,   go on YouTube and watch his video Brexit Britain is crumbling

 

Never thought I'd say this but, after seeing Sunak's performance as PM and the way he's taking Britain backwards.

I could almost begin to like Johnson,   but we can't have a rule breaker and liar making rules for us.

   

 

That opinion from Andrew Marr is quite worrying, he's an intelligent well informed commentator who wishes the best for the country and he's obviously concerned as to the way things may work out.

I agree with him as to what a disaster a Trump re election would be, but disagree with him in regard to our next government having an overwhelming majority allowing them to do as they wish.

The Tory's having an unassailable majority is one of the reasons we are where we are. I don't support either party and don't trust Labour not to get carried away and start imposing their ideology. I could see a left wing equivalent of ERG forming and also causing damage enforcing their particular agenda.

I totally agree with him about the UK becoming rule takers and I argued that before the referendum. So much for ' Taking Back Control '.

[Jack Grey]

Well,, well, well......

 

UK overtakes France and Germany as economic growth bigger than expected after COVID 🤔

 

https://news.sky.com/story/gdp-uk-overtakes-france-and-germany-as-economic-growth-bigger-than-expected-after-covid-12972101