Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Baron99]

23 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I am not confused at all.

I find it sad that all the energy can not be put to improving our futures instead of harping on about the past.

How is our economy faring against France and Germany I wonder ?

My bold. 

 

I know your not but that's what many of those on here want you to believe.  That you're some kind of misguided fool who can't think for himself.  You were misled & if you were given the opportunity to vote again, you'd get it right this time.  

 

Let me tell you. I would have voted leave back around the early 2000's when Blair first muted the idea of a referendum before reneging on the matter 'because things had changed'.  Long before Cameron offered the vote & years before Boris got a sniff as PM. 

 

We were part of the EU for 47 years.  We had a democratic vote, (the largest turnout in our history), Leave won, move on. 

 

Now I'm not saying that the EU or whatever form it morphs into might not eventually become an attractive proposition again & that we may consider joining up to that body but not rejoining the tye of organisation that we left 7 years ago. 

 

Let's see what the EU looks like in another 47 years, shall we? 

[m williamson]

11 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Could I recommend a book to you about the victims of the N. Ireland Troubles.

It is titled. To a Dark Place.  Experiences from survivors of the troubles.

Author. Ken Wharton.

 

I'm a citizen of the Irish Republic and have lived and attended a school and a college there, I am fairly well versed in Irish history .

 

No side came out of the tragedy that was the Troubles with honour. You are arguing on this thread that peoples wishes expressed in a democratic vote should be honoured.

Pity that didn't happen following the Irish General Election of 1918 isn't it? Sinn Fein campaigned for Independence in that election and they won an overwhelming victory winning 73 of the 105 seats in the country.

Instead of honouring the democratic will of the people the Westminster government ignored it. That led to the War of Independence and the partitioning of an ancient land.

That then resulted in the Troubles and all of that tragedy wouldn't have happened if it were not for the British governments refusal to accept the election result.

 

 

[Baron99]

14 minutes ago, altus said:

How many times does it have to be pointed out - democracy in this country didn't end in June 2016 any more than it ended in 1975. That democracy includes the right to protest about our relationship with the EU.

 

The people who were happy with the result of the 1975 vote were content for those those who argued we should never have voted yes to protest about it. Why are you so disturbed by people protesting that we've left the EU?

I told you harvey19 that another would be along shortly. 

[harvey19]

28 minutes ago, altus said:

How many times does it have to be pointed out - democracy in this country didn't end in June 2016 any more than it ended in 1975. That democracy includes the right to protest about our relationship with the EU.

 

The people who were happy with the result of the 1975 vote were content for those those who argued we should never have voted yes to protest about it. Why are you so disturbed by people protesting that we've left the EU?

I am not disturbed just think the energy could be spent in a more productive way .

Did you hear  how well our economy is performing in relation to France and Germany ?

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by harvey19

[harvey19]

9 minutes ago, m williamson said:

I'm a citizen of the Irish Republic and have lived and attended a school and a college there, I am fairly well versed in Irish history .

 

No side came out of the tragedy that was the Troubles with honour. You are arguing on this thread that peoples wishes expressed in a democratic vote should be honoured.

Pity that didn't happen following the Irish General Election of 1918 isn't it? Sinn Fein campaigned for Independence in that election and they won an overwhelming victory winning 73 of the 105 seats in the country.

Instead of honouring the democratic will of the people the Westminster government ignored it. That led to the War of Independence and the partitioning of an ancient land.

That then resulted in the Troubles and all of that tragedy wouldn't have happened if it were not for the British governments refusal to accept the election result.

 

 

The partition document said that Ireland could be reunited if the people so wished by PEACEFUL means.

I recommended the book so that you could have an understanding of the situations during the troubles in N.Ireland.

Please read it to get a fuller understanding of reality and why Southern Ireland may not want to reunite with the north.

The book is very objective and written without bias but brings home the reality from all sides.

[m williamson]

5 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

I know your not but that's what many of those on here want you to believe.  That you're some kind of misguided fool who can't think for himself.  You were misled & if you were given the opportunity to vote again, you'd get it right this time

So Baron explain to us how you believe democracy works.  What are the rules, how long must a decision taken democratically be adhered to after it becomes obvious that it was a mistake and is damaging the country both economically and reputationally?

 

Economically https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output

 

                                 https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/

 

Reputationally.   https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/2021-01-11-global-britain-global-broker-niblett_0.pdf

 

                                     https://theface.com/society/what-british-politics-looks-like-to-rest-world-international-reputation-laughing-stock-liz-truss-rishi-sunak

                                     

[altus]

9 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

I am not disturbed just think the energy could be spent in a more productive way .

In the same way that those who thought we should have voted no in 1975 thought they were trying to improve the country, those arguing we should rejoin the EU think they are trying to improve the country.

 

Realistically, we aren't rejoining the EU any time soon - they won't have us until we've decided that we definitely want in permanently for starters. But arguing for a closer relationship with the EU, rather than the cut off your nose to spite your face hard brexit we have, is a reasonable goal. The government have already effectively abandoned the UK certificate authority - so even (some of) the Tories can be willing to soften the harder edges a bit.

 

Quote

Why did you crop the part of my post about how well our economy was performing in relation to France and Germany ?

You frequently don't respond to every point people make in their posts without explanation. Others are free to do the same when responding to your posts.

[harvey19]

13 minutes ago, altus said:

In the same way that those who thought we should have voted no in 1975 thought they were trying to improve the country, those arguing we should rejoin the EU think they are trying to improve the country.

 

Realistically, we aren't rejoining the EU any time soon - they won't have us until we've decided that we definitely want in permanently for starters. But arguing for a closer relationship with the EU, rather than the cut off your nose to spite your face hard brexit we have, is a reasonable goal. The government have already effectively abandoned the UK certificate authority - so even (some of) the Tories can be willing to soften the harder edges a bit.

 

You frequently don't respond to every point people make in their posts without explanation. Others are free to do the same when responding to your posts.

I apologise you did not crop my post, the sentence was in a different post.

 

In a strange way we are saying the same thing.

I want energy to be used to improve our future not to constantly bemoan leaving the EU.

When, and I am sure we will, improve our economy maybe we should join a new type of partnership but let us move forward without constantly regretting the past.

[m williamson]

8 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The partition document said that Ireland could be reunited if the people so wished by PEACEFUL means.

I recommended the book so that you could have an understanding of the situations during the troubles in N.Ireland.

Please read it to get a fuller understanding of reality and why Southern Ireland may not want to reunite with the north.

The book is very objective and written without bias but brings home the reality from all sides.

The Good Friday Agreement provided the mechanism for Ireland to be reunited by peaceful political means. That mechanism didn't exist previously, Northern Ireland was a gerrymandered state designed to provide unchallenged power to one group and one group only.

They could have set out to prove that those in what was the Free State at that time were wrong and should have remained in the UK.

Instead of which they set out to discriminate against that community in every way possible.

 

James Craig said at the time that it would be interesting to see which part of Ireland turned out to be the most successful. That question has been answered beyond all argument. Despite being left without the country's manufacturing sector and at first being almost completely agricultural the Republic has totally eclipsed NI economically and is wealthier than any part of the UK with the single exception of the South East of England.

 

The Republic is even helping out Northern Ireland financially.  https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/student-nurse-cuts-lead-to-cross-border-ireland-deal-12-06-2023/#:~:text=The Republic of Ireland will,Northern Ireland for 2023-24.

 

The contrast is stark,  Northern Ireland   https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/08/15/news/major_road_schemes_in_ni_paused_amid_funding_shortfall-3531300/

 

The Republic.  https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/ireland-to-invest-over-1bn-in-local-and-national-roads-in-2023-20-02-2023/

 

Partition should never have happened in the first place. Reunification is inevitable, I doubt that I will live to see it happen but as peaceful as possible a transition is what matters.

 

That is the reality.

 

 

[Mister Gee]

13 minutes ago, m williamson said:

The Good Friday Agreement provided the mechanism for Ireland to be reunited by peaceful political means. That mechanism didn't exist previously, Northern Ireland was a gerrymandered state designed to provide unchallenged power to one group and one group only.

They could have set out to prove that those in what was the Free State at that time were wrong and should have remained in the UK.

Instead of which they set out to discriminate against that community in every way possible.

 

James Craig said at the time that it would be interesting to see which part of Ireland turned out to be the most successful. That question has been answered beyond all argument. Despite being left without the country's manufacturing sector and at first being almost completely agricultural the Republic has totally eclipsed NI economically and is wealthier than any part of the UK with the single exception of the South East of England.

 

The Republic is even helping out Northern Ireland financially.  https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/student-nurse-cuts-lead-to-cross-border-ireland-deal-12-06-2023/#:~:text=The Republic of Ireland will,Northern Ireland for 2023-24.

 

The contrast is stark,  Northern Ireland   https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/08/15/news/major_road_schemes_in_ni_paused_amid_funding_shortfall-3531300/

 

The Republic.  https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/ireland-to-invest-over-1bn-in-local-and-national-roads-in-2023-20-02-2023/

 

Partition should never have happened in the first place. Reunification is inevitable, I doubt that I will live to see it happen but as peaceful as possible a transition is what matters.

 

That is the reality.

 

 

What an excellent post, you really know your stuff m williamson.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mister Gee